WTF Is rare about a "Dwarf Dragon"

[ladyknite]

I've watched several breeders over 2009 post and share hatchings of multiple pairs of siamese twin dragons. They think it's kewl, it's an anomoly to be shared and gawked at, comparing notes on how long they can keep it alive. Mind you, it's not about supplying it with the best possible life as I have observed at least 2 people do, it's about a game of chance, with a living being. They have no forethought on quality of life, no conscious thought on if that life should continue naturally, or end humanely.
I take part in organizations that fight for animal rights, to avoid exploitisms and to control cruel and unhealthy habitats, so all this is rather hard for me to stomach. I believe that each breeder will make mistakes, witness those mistakes, and move forward. It's which direction they move forward in.........that concerns me.

 

[Red Ink AUS]

Francis don't you think these "black" dragons they're coming up with is simply the increase of the melanistic gene as a result of line or in breeding?

These are my thoughts exactly Gina, like i said where are these so called breeders going to get new genetic stock? I seriously doubt that they would spend the money to get new gene pool from Europe. So then what's the next best thing? "line breeding", I don't really have a big problem with this method if you know what your doing. I have had a few friends do this but they start off with three pairs and the way they do it is mapped out before they start their breeding programs with which offspring to the other. I saw one plan that looked like a messed up spider web drawn on a board with numbers F1, F2 ,F3, F4, and F5 criss crossing all over the place with pics of individual dragons he was trying to breed back. If done properly line breeding is possible (i believe) but you need a stable enough gene pool to do it as well as time and patience so as not to make the wrong crossing and introduce a lot of genetic defects.

Ethical breeders here in OZ do not have a problem "culling" specimens that are inferior, it's a necessary evil. I discussed this subject with a breeder friend of mine here and this were his exact words. " Mate, yanks think that every defect is a new morph, if they stopped and thought what the damage they are actually doing to a small gene pool that they already have by letting these defective individuals permeate the gene pool over there they wouldn't have as much problems. There will be a day that those dragons over there would need to be classified as a new subspecies with what those clowns are doing, it's disgraceful, bloody silkbacks." I had to paraphrase and emit a few choice words as this is a "family" forum.

This practice of selling defective specimen will never stop over there as it's a cultural difference, if it's something out of the norm, tag it with a fancy name sell it to some poor sucker and all is well.
Here you can't sell me lemons and call them apples mate, if it's a dud it's a dud. I don't care what the hell you call it.

 

[beardielover17]

you pretty much said it very well francis, as did your friend...i despise the flippin silkbacks....i feel so bad for what they have become...i always thought the point of having a dragon was for it to look dragon like...not look and feel like a certain male body part if ya get me

 

[ladyknite]

Oh my god Candice............you hit the nail on the head. ROFLMBO

Francis
Hats off..........well said.

 

[crypticdragons]

Silkbacks, translucents, leathers, f**kin dwarfs
all this is a (in my opinion) genetic accident that in the wild would die off quickly through natural selection. We in the US are constantly weakening our gene pool here by trying to make the bearded dragon cuter and more appealing to a more diverse market. But at what cost. I have spoken with numerous people on this fact (most of whom told me i was wrong and stupid in the same sentence but a few agree) that what we call bearded dragons here are a mere shadow of their wild brethren. The bearded dragons we have here would not survive a day in their true wild habitats. They have been twisted tweaked weekend and changed into something completely different. I hate what they have become. Thats why i breed specifically for size and robustness. If all of mine came out dust grey id be fine with it so long as they were strong and healthy.

 

[crypticdragons]

NOW SHE PUT IN THE SALE AD THAT IT CAN EASILY BE BRED TO A REGULAR SIZED DRAGON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I tried to breed a dragon like Dr. Evil (my big male) to a dragon that size that female would die or be severely injured. I hate people sometimes.

 

[Red Ink AUS]

GRRRRRRRRR ST&*%D F*^% SH^%$.

This is exactly what i am saying, a genetic defect being introduced into an already weak gene pool. Some poor sucker is going to believe what the breeder says, mate it with a healthy dragon thus passing on the defects to future progenies.

 

[crypticdragons]

GRRRRRRRRR ST&*%D F*^% SH^%$.

This is exactly what i am saying, a genetic defect being introduced into an already weak gene pool. Some poor sucker is going to believe what the breeder says, mate it with a healthy dragon thus passing on the defects to future progenies.

hey Francis i hear the australian Navy is looking for new members. You wanna help me find a place down there lol

 

[beardielover17]

Oh my god Candice............you hit the nail on the head. ROFLMBO

Francis
Hats off..........well said.

haha im sorry gina i just had to...when i held a silkback at one of the previous reptile expos it was the 1st thing that came into my mind...i know i have a dirty mind but it felt pretty much exactly the same

 

[ladyknite]

I totally understand................and agree even. I'm still laughing tho.

 

[beardielover17]

what was even funnier was the look on the "breeder's"face when i said, "omg its like a uncir****** with legs and eyes!"

 

[ladyknite]

LOL............i bet. I would love to be a face in that crowd around you at that moment. I'd have been laughing all day.

 

[beardielover17]

haha come to a hamburg meet

 

[Twobeardieguy]

Candice, are you going to the next Hamburg meet?

 

[beardielover17]

im going to try to...i wanna stock up on banana roaches and hornworms and PWs...maybe convince the hubby into letting me get something *hides*

 

[Twobeardieguy]

We will all have to meet up!

 

[beardielover17]

whens the next one? i kno theres 2 websites for it with 2 diff sets of dates

 

[fresnowitte]

$800 OMG! Someone definitely has bumped their head.
??? What are they thinking?

Here I kept my runt beardies because I didn't feel it proper to sell them. I have 3 smallish beardies(not breeding stock weak gene pool) that would be $2400 to the seller of that beardie. If a beardie is that small there's something missing somewhere...why on earth would someone try to come up off a misfortune...misfortune meaning that the beardies somehow didn't recieve all of the nutrients that were needed while in the egg slight defect/flaw.

I personally do not see that beardie as being unique. Poor beardie got shorted somewhere. It should have read for free!

Now if it was a humungus beardie that would be more intriging. ;D

How on earth do they think that she could be a breeder. She is way to small to go thru the process of egg laying she would most likely have difficulties. I have seen this happen before and the small 3 year old female died while trying to spit out the egg. She died of internal difficulties from the ruptures she received trying to lay those eggs. :'( I'd even be worried about her laying infertile eggs to be honest.

Personally I'd rather take pride in big healthy babies than small weakly babies.

Not fair! Hamburg is way to far for me to go.

 

[beardielover17]

in the case with you barbara, zack and wheezy (sorry if i spelled their names wrong) are in good hands and you didnt sell out like other people wouldve...you know better than to breed them and you devote tons of time to dragons who need special attention...i agree...i wouldnt be surprised if the poor girl had complications or died from egg laying...its terrible to try to make so much money off of dragons like that

 

[Twobeardieguy]

Dec 5th