WTF Is rare about a "Dwarf Dragon"

[crypticdragons]

So there is a fairly well known bearded dragon breeder that has posted a sale ad for a "Extremely Rare Dwarf Translucent Bearded Dragon" what the hell is rare/special about a dragon that is so genetically bastardized/unfit that it stopped growing at 13 inches. Sorry that really annoys me. I posted about this before back when this "fad" first started growing. it just amazes me that someone would think a dragon that will never grow past 13 inches is some kind of rarity that would be worth reproducing. It really pisses me off. maybe i am alone in this idea but dragons should not be that small


PS
Animal listed for 800 dollars shipped ???

 

[DragonMom]

:-X

 

[crypticdragons]

Most rankins in the US are unfortunately crossed with Vitticeps. The dwarf dragons are something that have recently been popping up. At first it was thought of as unhealthy but recently some breeders have been attempting to reproduce this trait and sell them as a "designer" breed of dragons. It is sad and i really cant believe people are doing this on purpose.

 

[DragonMom]

:-X

 

[crypticdragons]

yeah its quite hard to find a true rankins in the us. now there are ones where the cross was 5 or more generations back which per geneticists means they are very close to a pure rankins again. but no matter what they were still crossed. now there are a few breeders working with true rankins and there are breeders in europe (to my understanding) that have illegally procured wild rankins.

 

[DragonMom]

:-X

 

[crypticdragons]

i cant guaruntee that the animal comes from inbreeding or if it is a defect brought on from the lineage itself as it is a translucent and there are numerous issues in the history of the translucent gene. i doubt that the breeder that is selling this dragon bred this dragon and if she did i sincerely doubt she purposefully inbred them. But wether it was from inbreeding or more likely from selective breeding it is still something i feel should not be pursued but not many care about my opinion lol.

 

[DragonMom]

:-X

 

[Twobeardieguy]

Brian I also agree with you!!! I like the color but that is about it! 800? wtf!! :

 

[DragonMom]

:-X

 

[beardielover17]

is this breeder you speak of the one that i cant stand?

 

[crypticdragons]

no its not

 

[beardielover17]

that somewhat shocked me but it didnt in a way...i have no idea how the hell thats considered a "dwarf" the dwarfs still get 18 inches or so but their body is proportioned differently

 

[Red Ink AUS]

Sorry to say this but it all boils down to a " I'm special cause i have this" mentality that permiates the hobby over there (in my opinion) bragging rights plain and simple. You guys seem to be "morph" obssesed, the rarer the morph regardless of the inherent defects the higher the price. If you ask that price in OZ for an obviously "genetically defective" specimen you would get laughed out of the country. It also applies to those silkbacks and "JAG" carpets, poster children on why OZ keepers will never support the borders being re-opened.

If you wanted a small dragon spend the money on a "true" P.henrylawsonii, rather than a genetically inferior specimen. There has been now certain talks of "black bearded dragons" being produced again anything new is all about the $$$$. How are people going to to this when there is no new gene pool coming out of OZ. Answer: in breeding and a "genetic deficiency", I'm with you Brian this really boils my blood and often have to bite my tounge on most forums on these issues, luckily this forum and it's members are mature enough that i could "let it rip" so to speak without being flammed or banned.

With the issue of the "Black" bearded dragons, breeders in question are saying "careful selective breeding", my question is selective breeding from what? You guys don't exactly have the meriad of choice for new genetic material and most of what is out there is highly coloured beardies, they even mentioned P.barbata, where exactly are they going to get them from? They are virtually non-existent over there, even by a slim hope and hell freezes over and they get their hands on a P.barbata over there then what? a hybrid? Please!! that just brings as back to the same dilema as the "dwarfs".

My two cents.

 

[DragonMom]

:-X

 

[crypticdragons]

Yes it is ashamed that someone would take a trait that is actually a weakness in a genetic line and bring it out to be a breedable trait. The dragon i sold yesterday was 13 inches long. She was 3.5 months old. I couldnt imagine a dragon being that size at 1.5 years old. It makes me sick to think of it. You have to wonder where peoples morals are sometimes. Granted i understand its about the money to many, and if reptiles are your livelyhood than so be it. But seriously i think people would rather buy a bearded dragon and not a bastardized version of what they used to be.

 

[ladyknite]

Bragging rights.................Makes you wonder what man has come to when he claims right to the retarted form of absolute and has no interest in real health or genetics.

Take a closer look at that "breeder"
A well known viral cell also causes the "dwarfing" gene in dragons. It's believed that these "dwarfs" may be sterile, and to my knowledge, they have not been successfully bred together yet.

The Rankins is getting harder to find here that's for sure. We've got them, but haven't bred them yet. We're still working on understanding the differences they require and seek.

Francis don't you think these "black" dragons they're coming up with is simply the increase of the melanistic gene as a result of line or in breeding?

 

[crypticdragons]

Its known that the breeders working on "black" dragons are taking the blackest dragons from clutches and breeding them to each other and so on and so on.

And Gina im so glad that you weighed in on this thread. I was hoping to get an opinion from you on this too.

 

[ladyknite]

i have so much more than opinion on this subject. Mutation, for some sick reason, seems to fascinate people.
3 legged dogs, 2 headed animals, unfortunate siamese twins. Instead of acknowledging the fact that nature has gone terribly wrong somewhere, they seek out the money and notoriety to be made from it. Yet you'll notice that few (if any) of the "freaks of nature" have benefited from this money. With that said, I will acknowledge that there are 1 or 2 out there that have had this occurance, stopped in their tracks, looked back, and did not continue forward on the same path to risk the same occurance again. However few and far between those are, the ones that seek profit are so much more flourishing.

I love genetics, I love science, I love animals............and it pisses me off to the high heavens why idiots still want to do this.

 

[crypticdragons]

I look at myself i had my male (Lucky) that was born a runt and had a skin issue under his neck. I gave him to someone for free. I couldnt have brought myself to sell him as a "1 of a kind" dragon. I mean dont get me wrong i like money and could use more of it. but i cant imagine what goes through a person's head when they throw all moral and ethical codes out of the window just to make a buck.