This cricket virus thing

[zebraflavencs]

So is anyone else actually trying to propagate new colonies from the wild ?

 

[TheVirus]

If it did chances are you won't find it alive out there.

You are the man Red

I feed wild bugs every year. My reptiles love grasshoppers, katydids, locusts, moths....

I'll have the kids catch them from a field or something, keep them for a day or two, and feed them off. When I was a kid, we would catch bugs for my fathers lizards. He wouldn't quarantine, and we lived in a small city.

As for the cricket virus, beardies eat primarily greens anyway. It shouldn't affect us too much. When they need animal protein we can give them tons of food. Bird, rodent, fish, crustacean, wild bugs..... Its just important to cut up larger prey items, and to make sure we feed the "whole" prey item.....the eyes, the guts, the butts, etc..

 

[beardielover17]

I used to find katydids all the time. Didn't know those were ok to feed. I always found them kinda pretty so I used to keep the ones I caught. Now I know

 

[Red Ink AUS]

One thing though guys, stay away from anything that has bio-luminesence and everything that is in the ladybug family to be on the safe side. All crickets/locust are eadible, all arachnids are safe (even redbacks or black widows as you call them) huntsmans are delicious according to dragons scorpions are ok but i cut off the stinger when i give them to the dragons. Moths are ok, butterflies are food but i keep away from anything "red" in nature. Catterpillars are good quick search on native anthopods should also give you an indication if they are good or not. One rule I also always follow is if the birds and spiders don't eat them then they are probably poisonous.

 

[beardielover17]

I figured that ladybugs were harmful and anything with bio luminescence. I would've thought black widows or any spider would've been a no no. We have tons of caterpillars here and always wondered if they were edible. I also stay away from anything brightly colored since usually it's an indication of being poisonous although not always the case.

 

[TheVirus]

Candice,

They say smooth caterpillars are ok, but hairy are no good. They can also eat snails

 

[beardielover17]

Candice,

They say smooth caterpillars are ok, but hairy are no good. They can also eat snails

I figured about the hairy part lol I wouldn't like a mouth of fuzz. That's why I peel my peaches lol. I'd feel so awful feeding a snail. They are so darn cute even though my in-laws' backyard is overrun with them.

 

[beardielover17]

On another forum I remember them saying that spiders were deadly to dragons. After hearing recent posts I assume their information was incorrect? I believe you guys more than I believe what I read on the other forum lol

 

[Craiger]

This is some REALLY good information. Thanks for the info, Francis!

 

[ladyknite]

Francis, Tim
Thanks so much. I know and realize what kind of "crap" you'ld hear if you were any where else.

To Everyone Else
There are many things that are viable, that have been ridiculed, mocked and deemed "impossible" over the decades that many of us practice and understand. But you should ask yourself at what time, and for what reason were they suddenly "impossible" or dangerous to practice and I'm quite certain you'll resolve your answer to the supply/demand and money making end of the deal, not the impossibility of the most logical. After all, we don't seriously think these bugs were ALWAYS captive bred do we?

The cricket virus appears to affect the captive farm raised cricket. Wild crickets are only subject to the virus if they are directly quarantined within the parameters of it's space (by other contaminated stock). Everybody is in a panick.......except those people that don't fall victim to rhetoric.

 

[Craiger]

Francis, Tim
Thanks so much. I know and realize what kind of "crap" you'ld hear if you were any where else.

That's exactly why I love this forum so much. Those of us that are "relatively" new to herpkeeping (like myself) are open-minded enough to accept something out of the box from those of us that have been around the block a time or two. I may only be speaking for myself (and I doubt it), but I really do appreciate the alternatives we have in offering various foods to our beardies. Personally, I feel mine are getting a bit bored with what I've been offering for the last 3 or 4 years. So I'm at a place where I'm looking for alternatives. This thread has given me the hope I need to do just that....so I thank you guys for not only starting this thread, but having the gall to speak your mind without fear of retribution. In addition, I want to thank the members of this forum for not being so closed-minded that we jump all over those that offer alternatives to what we've been told in all our herping life. I feel bad for others that have been on forums I've been a member of in the past. If they even remotely offered any advice alternate to that of the "norm", they were not only ridiculed, but deemed too stupid to participate in the forum. In the end, they were ran off....and I always hated that.

To Everyone Else
There are many things that are viable, that have been ridiculed, mocked and deemed "impossible" over the decades that many of us practice and understand. But you should ask yourself at what time, and for what reason were they suddenly "impossible" or dangerous to practice and I'm quite certain you'll resolve your answer to the supply/demand and money making end of the deal, not the impossibility of the most logical. After all, we don't seriously think these bugs were ALWAYS captive bred do we?

The cricket virus appears to affect the captive farm raised cricket. Wild crickets are only subject to the virus if they are directly quarantined within the parameters of it's space (by other contaminated stock). Everybody is in a panick.......except those people that don't fall victim to rhetoric.

I feel this forum falls into the category of the latter....and am very thankful for that. I can't thank you enough, Gina, for directing me here. One of the best moves I've made in the last 4 years.

 

[ladyknite]

Glad to hear it Craig. There are actually alot of people that come here just to read. They never register. But then, I suppose they're here to read a different opinion, a different way of life.

Over the last 10 years or so, I've noticed a problem with most forums. The "cliche" mentality. As you said.......

If they even remotely offered any advice alternate to that of the "norm", they were not only ridiculed, but deemed too stupid to participate in the forum. In the end, they were ran off....and I always hated that.

The knowledge base that is practiced today came from those that chose to try the alternatives, to reach beyond that square box and give people other choices. In doing so, part of the past was left out of todays information. And that is a BAD thing.

Information carried around and practiced by some of us.......isn't for all of us. Yet it's still important that we know it exists vs. denying it ever existed.

I remember Tim and Francis on another forum several years ago where they were chastised and flamed for the mention of this same thing. It's nice to know that their practices have lasted this many years and are still going strong. So guys.............did those animals keel over as fast as predicted? j/k

I've wanted for years for people to know the truth about things. Not just the rhetoric that gets yapped around. People stopped telling the truth years ago. For the simple reason you stated. Everybody else is just learning and repeating what they've been told.

Now, Francis is in OZ and doesn't quite face what we do in the US.........but ask Tim...................
Have things gotten so much better in the last 10 years.........or do they appear to be on a downhill roll?
If progress is designed to improve...........how is that this hobby is degrading? (lets not get on a breeder assault mission) (think information)

 

[staylor]

since I have tons of moths here I will try feeding some of those as treats to change things up. Did not think about feeding them...not sure why not but tonight, I am going to catch some and see how they like them.

 

[Craiger]

since I have tons of moths here I will try feeding some of those as treats to change things up. Did not think about feeding them...not sure why not but tonight, I am going to catch some and see how they like them.

I think I'd quarantine them, first, just to be safe. If they don't die in another day or two, they're likely okay to offer.

 

[staylor]

I was planing on keeping them for a day or two then feed them.

 

[Red Ink AUS]

Now, Francis is in OZ and doesn't quite face what we do in the US.........but ask Tim...................
Have things gotten so much better in the last 10 years.........or do they appear to be on a downhill roll?
If progress is designed to improve...........how is that this hobby is degrading? (lets not get on a breeder assault mission) (think information)

We may not face the same problems you guys have over there but egos are egos you know what i mean when it comes to forums in OZ. Different problems and opinions same egos though lol.

Progress means movement to something new as in progressing to something different or better.
4x2x2 love and rhetoric is stagnant as it's the only way you won't kill the specimen .
People need to start looking at the 4x2x2 love as a basic "house", now that it has heating, lights and food how can I make it better for the inhabitants as i have ticked all the necessities? Or you can think of it this way for a human a 10x5x6 enclosure is sufficient as long as you provide it with the necessities i.e. a toilet, bed, optimum temperature place to eat and a human will survive in there, just ask any prison they'll tell you they do . Some of them would even house multiples in there even though the inhabitants can be territorial and aggressive to each other.

What caresheet husbandry has done is create "dragon suburbia" where everything stays the same and nothing ever changes. Careheet love is fine in the beginning as in it provides all that is needed to keep things in check and working properly but what it is also doing is stiffling progress. "If it ain't broke don't fix it", which is true enough but my mentality is "if you don't explore and tinker, you ain't going to learn".

 

[TheVirus]

I wanted to quote some great points you guys made, but there was too many

Caresheet husbandry is like a person who doesn't have children, that suddenly was given a child to watch for a day. It goes something like this...... " Don't touch that. Don't go over there. Don't run. Don't put that in your mouth. Keep your voice down. Keep your hands to yourself.".....etc.. The child ends up doing nothing but sitting on the couch, holding a stuffed animal.

But...I'm as guilty as the masses. My husbandry is probably the furthest apart from everybody else, yet when people ask me how to keep their dragons, I give the caresheet answer too. Its easier. I could speak for an hour about one aspect of my dragon husbandry....ask Janie

Whats funny is my beardie husbandry came from me applying Monitor Lizard husbandry to Veiled Chameleons. Man, did I get flamed when I told people that!

 

[Red Ink AUS]

But...I'm as guilty as the masses. My husbandry is probably the furthest apart from everybody else, yet when people ask me how to keep their dragons, I give the caresheet answer too. Its easier. I could speak for an hour about one aspect of my dragon husbandry....ask Janie

Whats funny is my beardie husbandry came from me applying Monitor Lizard husbandry to Veiled Chameleons. Man, did I get flamed when I told people that!

I hear that mate LOL. I don't practice what i preach either (to an extent). Tell somebody how to do caresheet husbandry or get flamed by somedody that has been keeping reptiles for 2 months . I know which one I would be doing LOL.

 

[ladyknite]

I wanted to quote some great points you guys made, but there was too many

Caresheet husbandry is like a person who doesn't have children, that suddenly was given a child to watch for a day. It goes something like this...... " Don't touch that. Don't go over there. Don't run. Don't put that in your mouth. Keep your voice down. Keep your hands to yourself.".....etc.. The child ends up doing nothing but sitting on the couch, holding a stuffed animal.

But...I'm as guilty as the masses. My husbandry is probably the furthest apart from everybody else, yet when people ask me how to keep their dragons, I give the caresheet answer too. Its easier. I could speak for an hour about one aspect of my dragon husbandry....ask Janie

Whats funny is my beardie husbandry came from me applying Monitor Lizard husbandry to Veiled Chameleons. Man, did I get flamed when I told people that!

So true about the kids. LOL...........never thought of it that way.

I think anybody that's been around the block a time or two has put some thought into this practice and derived their husbandry from trial and error. Just as I'm sure you did Tim and Francis. No one knew what would work, until they tried it.
I'm just as guilty as the rest for quoting the most recent way of acceptable housing. But bottom line, In the last several years, the bulk of what's out there has degraded in health for a variety of reasons. Surely ya'll remember when they tried to irradicate all the oocysts in the reptile digestive system? Stripped their tanks...........implemented some pretty harsh chemicals for cleaning. But never gave any thought to the immune suppression issues they'd create. Welcome to the millennium huh? anyways.......i could go on and on.......................

Tell somebody how to do caresheet husbandry or get flamed by somedody that has been keeping reptiles for 2 months Wink. I know which one I would be doing LOL.

This is what i don't get.

 

[TheVirus]

Surely ya'll remember when they tried to irradicate all the oocysts in the reptile digestive system? Stripped their tanks...........implemented some pretty harsh chemicals for cleaning. But never gave any thought to the immune suppression issues they'd create.

I used to call it "Operation Room clean enclosures" and "Sterile environments". People would get so mad at me Then I would show them pictures of my dragons, who literally live in dirt.

I think anybody that's been around the block a time or two has put some thought into this practice and derived their husbandry from trial and error.

This is the sad truth. I can only speak for myself when I say that I killed alot of lizards prematurely from husbandry errors. Beardies were always easy, but I've never kept one to old age. I don't have any old beardies now.

I've kept alot of species of lizards, but I always consider myself a Veiled Chameleon breeder. I used to think I was so good at keeping them. My Chameleons lived 2-3 years, then I tweaked some things and got four at of a few, then I started really changing things. I got seven years out of my last Chameleon. It only took me 14 years and a butt load of Chameleons.....

All that being said, I believe that we can learn from everybody. I never know where a good idea may come from. It could come from a noob, somebody with years in, or somebody who doesn't keep reptiles at all. Thats why I'm up for all suggestions. I'm always trying to learn something.