"Lizzy" says Hi.

[Skybug]

So cute. Never seen that black one before. I've seen a red eyed crocodile that looks a bit like him. How old are they? They look in great shape too. Is that shedding skin on his back and near his mouth? Nice to live in a hot climate. I can't take out Lizzy for more than 10 minutes without her loosing her body heat.

Anyway, as requested she did it right on time today as usual.


Although it looks hard it's very soft and just mushes up very easily when handled with tissue. Softer than mashed potatoes. Looks like she's been swallowing them whole too. She eats XL locust now I think they are labelled Size 5? One more shed and they start to grow wings sizes. And if she can't eat them in time and they grow wings, I end up having to cut the legs and wings off those poor guys just to avoid any risk of impaction. She rarely touches Crickets and Dubia Roaches for some reason and I just don't have the time and patience to coax her to eat them. She closes her eyes when I try give them to her. And she does eat salad. Maybe 10% at most. The only way I can force her to eat more greens is to gut feed the locusts before she eats them. Sort of like the last supper.

I will say that’s probably the best looking poo ive seen in a while, in my opinion i think you should be giving him more water intake, there should be a little pool with the poo, if you dont mist his salad I highly recommend it, may i see a picture of the hoppers you’re feeding him? And possibly a pic of the vitamins and supplements? (Im not to familiar with brand names) And your not taking the whole back leg off are you?

 

[Monstermug]

I will say that’s probably the best looking poo ive seen in a while, in my opinion i think you should be giving him more water intake, there should be a little pool with the poo, if you dont mist his salad I highly recommend it, may i see a picture of the hoppers you’re feeding him? And possibly a pic of the vitamins and supplements? (Im not to familiar with brand names) And your not taking the whole back leg off are you?

Apologies, I got caught up in all the poo I forgot about the vitamins. I use this. Not every day. Just maybe once or twice a week at most and just a sprinkle on the salad or spoon fed a tiny bit which is probably a little less than what gets stuck on locusts. I also dip cuttlefish powder which I grate off a cuttlefish onto the locust every other day and sprinkle it onto the salad. I leave the cuttlefish in there, and if I see Lizzy trying to eat it, that's when I know its time to spoon feed her some.

Its a lot more watery when it comes out. I had waited a while for Lizzy to go but didn't realise she had already gone and Ralph was sunbathing and blocked it from my vision. Lizzy did it right under the UVB bulb and it evaporated by pretty quick. She doesn't drink water. I tried to get her to drink in the bath, I tried spraying her, I tried putting some on her head. She doesn't like it and sulks when I do. (she sorts of dances on the spot and looks like she's getting ready to glass surf). So instead I make sure the locust are fully hydrated and gut loading them with leafy greens the day I feed them to her. Locusts are 75% water and the amount she should be able to sustain her. She doesn't have any other signs of dehydration that I can see. If anything I think she is too hydrated as I am a firm believer of keeping reptiles hydrated I do try my best! Ralph makes massive puddles every two days or so so he's getting water from somewhere. Also I bathe her twice a week so that's also a chance for her to have a drink if she needs it.

As for cutting off legs and wings of adult locust. I hate doing it. I really do. I think it's so cruel. I have to keep telling myself, that I'm not doing it for fun and it's no different to butchers chopping up the meat that we eat. I cut all their little arms and as for the back legs, the locust do it for me. Then I snip the wings off. At that stage the are about 4 cm long which is the size of a size 5 locust on the charts. It's even more painful to do it and for Lizzy to not want to eat it. They sit in the salad bowl wiggling their stumps which is quite disturbing. Once I saw one trying to eat the salad by wiggling around and trying to grab it with just their mouths. When this happens I try to feed her as quickly as I can.

 

[Monstermug]

One thing she has recently been doing is opening her mouth. I know that they do this to regulate the temperature but she does it when it's not even hot yet or when she's outside the vivarium as well. I'm pretty sure it's not an act of aggression as there is no reaction when I stroke her or anything that was alarming her at the time. Any ideas? Her beard is not puffed out or any changed to black anywhere nor making any noise. She's already just shed too so that can't be the cause.

 

[Skybug]

One thing she has recently been doing is opening her mouth. I know that they do this to regulate the temperature but she does it when it's not even hot yet or when she's outside the vivarium as well. I'm pretty sure it's not an act of aggression as there is no reaction when I stroke her or anything that was alarming her at the time. Any ideas? Her beard is not puffed out or any changed to black anywhere nor making any noise. She's already just shed too so that can't be the cause.

My beardie opens her mouth sometimes too, shes done it for as long as ive had her, i believe its just behavior, i dont think its something to worry about , and thats good the poo comes out with moisture, i did notice the poo had “skinned over” so i assumed it had been sitting for a tiny bit, that vitamin mix is that in your area specific? I tried looking it up and can only find pictures on google, and for the cuttle bone , thats given him the calcium right? (Ive had several birds in the past and I forgot what the reason was to give them it (i think it was so they could shave their beaks?correct me if im wrong lol) ima get one for my girl and see if i get a reaction where do you have it in the enclosure? And for the hoppers you dont need to cut off the front legs, unless those have spines?/or are not being digested as you said, and for the back legs dont cut them all the way off, the “haunch” part is where most of the meat/muscle is on them, idk if u were cutting those off or not.

 

[Monstermug]

My beardie opens her mouth sometimes too, shes done it for as long as ive had her, i believe its just behavior, i dont think its something to worry about , and thats good the poo comes out with moisture, i did notice the poo had “skinned over” so i assumed it had been sitting for a tiny bit, that vitamin mix is that in your area specific? I tried looking it up and can only find pictures on google, and for the cuttle bone , thats given him the calcium right? (Ive had several birds in the past and I forgot what the reason was to give them it (i think it was so they could shave their beaks?correct me if im wrong lol) ima get one for my girl and see if i get a reaction where do you have it in the enclosure? And for the hoppers you dont need to cut off the front legs, unless those have spines?/or are not being digested as you said, and for the back legs dont cut them all the way off, the “haunch” part is where most of the meat/muscle is on them, idk if u were cutting those off or not.

I'm not sure but here are the ingredients taken from Amazon.

Ingredients​

Contents per gram 200mg calcium & 150IU vitamin D3, plus vitamins A C E K B1 B2 B6 B12 folic, nicotinic & pantothenic acids, biotin choline niacin and minerals P Na Fe Co I Mn Zn Se Cu

I've only read good things about this so I guess it must do something.

I will just ignore her then but I can't help thinking she's trying to tell me something. They are smarter than they look.
The cuttlefish bone is for the calcium. It's 85% calcium. I read somewhere that in the wild they can sometimes eat mineral deposits found in the soil and rocks to supplement their calcium needs? Plus it's a good way for her to trim down her claws if she needs too. My tortoise has no way of eating this by himself so I just grate some into his food bowl. I just find somewhere I can wedge it in. There are clips that you sometimes get with it but they are mainly for bird cages. Yeah I used to feed them to my African Grey and Yellow Crested cockatoo but I am sure that was only supposed to sharpen their beaks on.

The legs don't look to be very meaty at all. Locust tend to rip them off themselves when I use the tweezers to grab them. Most of the time she crunches them off in her mouth too. The reason I take off all the legs is because I am trying to make them small enough for her to eat. With legs it's just a tad too big. It's either that or them dying in the trash which is a waste of a life which is another thing I have to tell myself while I am butchering them. Did you know sometimes Locust can spit out green fluid? Most of the time its dark brown black though. It's not much of a deterrent as Lizzy would sometimes lick it and then go for the kill straight after tasting it. I reckon in the next week or so she should be able to handle them. I thought legs was just mostly chitin. I try leave some sexy legs in for her next time.

 

[Skybug]

I'm not sure but here are the ingredients taken from Amazon.

Ingredients​

Contents per gram 200mg calcium & 150IU vitamin D3, plus vitamins A C E K B1 B2 B6 B12 folic, nicotinic & pantothenic acids, biotin choline niacin and minerals P Na Fe Co I Mn Zn Se Cu

I've only read good things about this so I guess it must do something.

I will just ignore her then but I can't help thinking she's trying to tell me something. They are smarter than they look.
The cuttlefish bone is for the calcium. It's 85% calcium. I read somewhere that in the wild they can sometimes eat mineral deposits found in the soil and rocks to supplement their calcium needs? Plus it's a good way for her to trim down her claws if she needs too. My tortoise has no way of eating this by himself so I just grate some into his food bowl. I just find somewhere I can wedge it in. There are clips that you sometimes get with it but they are mainly for bird cages. Yeah I used to feed them to my African Grey and Yellow Crested cockatoo but I am sure that was only supposed to sharpen their beaks on.

The legs don't look to be very meaty at all. Locust tend to rip them off themselves when I use the tweezers to grab them. Most of the time she crunches them off in her mouth too. The reason I take off all the legs is because I am trying to make them small enough for her to eat. With legs it's just a tad too big. It's either that or them dying in the trash which is a waste of a life which is another thing I have to tell myself while I am butchering them. Did you know sometimes Locust can spit out green fluid? Most of the time its dark brown black though. It's not much of a deterrent as Lizzy would sometimes lick it and then go for the kill straight after tasting it. I reckon in the next week or so she should be able to handle them. I thought legs was just mostly chitin. I try leave some sexy legs in for her next time.

Thats vitamin mix sounds good, I forgot to check Amazon, idk why it wasn’t popping up, what kind of hoppers Are you feeding him exactly we may be talking about two different kinds here, I just wanna make sure I’m giving you the right advice they have lots of meat in there back legs , I believe they have 3 major segments on their back legs , the haunch , the thin straight part(im guessing that part of be their shin on us) and then the foot/claws, just take off the leg where it meets the thin part, and yes they spit up nasty stuff, idk what it is or where it comes from (a mild venom/stomach content/ or a deterrent?) its never bothered my beardie and like yours mine has licked it too lol, dont feel to bad about butchering the bugs (they claim bugs dont have the same feeling of pain as other inverts) idk if i buy that) its nice you care for the feeders , thats proper

 

[Monstermug]

They are the standard desert locust that you buy from breeding farms. If you feed them, they quickly grow wings and you get double what you paid for. Might try breeding them as they are getting costly! They seem to thrive under the same conditions as the reptiles. Where do you get your bugs from? If it's protein they need, what's wrong with cat food? That's packed with protein. I'm sure they use insects to make most cat foods anyway as they are much cheaper than meat.

I hope I never have to butcher another locust again as he had finished his last adult one and I now have a fresh supply of smaller locust. Only giving them gel water for now to try to not make them malt. And then pick a bunch to gut feed the night before the slaughter.

To be honest, the last thing I am thinking about when cutting their legs off is trying to make the most of their legs. They kick and twist and next thing you know they are on your clothes! I grab the tips of their wings now as they can't detach that. You would think that after a few hundred times of it you get used to it but you never do.

I am no expert and trying to learn as much as I can so any advice is appreciated and taken in.

 

[Skybug]

They are the standard desert locust that you buy from breeding farms. If you feed them, they quickly grow wings and you get double what you paid for. Might try breeding them as they are getting costly! They seem to thrive under the same conditions as the reptiles. Where do you get your bugs from? If it's protein they need, what's wrong with cat food? That's packed with protein. I'm sure they use insects to make most cat foods anyway as they are much cheaper than meat.

I hope I never have to butcher another locust again as he had finished his last adult one and I now have a fresh supply of smaller locust. Only giving them gel water for now to try to not make them malt. And then pick a bunch to gut feed the night before the slaughter.

To be honest, the last thing I am thinking about when cutting their legs off is trying to make the most of their legs. They kick and twist and next thing you know they are on your clothes! I grab the tips of their wings now as they can't detach that. You would think that after a few hundred times of it you get used to it but you never do.

I am no expert and trying to learn as much as I can so any advice is appreciated and taken in.

I believe im getting the same species as you, although i do let mine molt a couple times more, almost to their adult form, i dont have any right now as my beardie finished her batch a couple days ago, they’re hard to get cause i live in FL and theres lots of crazy lizard people out here (we moved from cali, so im a crazy cali lizard person lol , i aint from here!) and yea if ur taking off the whole back leg, id try not to if you can (I cam understand ur beardies a lil guy and u want him to be safe) , you are missing out on almost all the meat though, and ima little confused by ur protein statement, are u feeding them with kitty food? Or ur beardie? And are you grabbing them with ur hand? The way I handle them is i pin them then grab their two haunchs between my two fingers and that makes them extend all their legs and u can easily snip them, as your beardie gets older he’ll be able to digest the front legs, ive never snipped the front legs and haven’t seen them come out in the poo (not the wings though, idk why those get untouched, even on roaches) id still cut off the spiny segment on the back legs definitely. And yea it never gets easy, I always feel bad swirling the bugs in the calcium cup , but their pain is only temporary. Its good you have feelings towards them, lots of people just dont care and say “well thats nature” and move on, has your beardie tried hornworms/(tomato catapillars) yet? Or BSFL (black Soldier fly larva) My girl goes absolutely nuts for the Hworms, they’re really good for hydration, my staple feeders are discoid roaches, the hoppers(when i can get them) super worms, and hornworms. And has ralph ever tried a dead bug? I know sometimes torts in the wild will feast upon a dead animal or a bone to supplement their diet(idk if ur guy is allowed to have protein or not) Hope im not “bugging” you with all the banter.

 

[Monstermug]

No I am not feeding her kitty food. I was just wondering why can't we since it's packed with protein and nutrients? I have arachnophobia and cringe at anything that has more than 4 legs. I don't like to touch them with my hands and scream like a little girl when they jump on me.

I have tried black fly larvae but he eat one and never again. I don't want to buy more insects just to bin if eating locust all day is okay to do. I still have a whole gang of Dubia roaches that I've been trying to keep alive. Also have a box of crickets that has grown wings and making a lot of noise. I try feed her one when she's hungry but she just wants the locust. What's in them that's so tasty?

Ralph won't eat anything but the food in his bowl and if I try put anything he doesn't like I have to end up changing it as he will foul it and sulk in his cave. If there is no food there he would sit next to it with one foot on the side and look at me. Funny guy.

 

[Skybug]

Yea they’d probably bite you pretty hard too, and omg same thing happened to me when i fed my beardie Bsfl , ate one then gave me the stink eye like “are you seriously feeding me this?” And idk a whole lot about cat food ingredients, but I wouldn’t, it is “formulated” for cats and it might have “grains” and these are very bad for beardies. I love ralph ive always wanted a turtle/tortoise but ive been told they have no personality, but ralph sounds like a card if not two

 

[Monstermug]

Ralph has tons of personality! He does the sexy leg every time he sunbathes! He's so low maintenance and really easy and cheap to keep! There were rumours that Indian Star Tortoise were hard to keep but that's not true. Easier than looking after a Bearded by far. And they live for like 30-50 years so you wont have to worry about them dying before you. They have really long digestive systems so go toilet maybe once a every two weeks maybe. Most hassle free and hardiest pet I have ever kept.

 

[BeardieLover<3]

Ralph has tons of personality! He does the sexy leg every time he sunbathes! He's so low maintenance and really easy and cheap to keep! There were rumours that Indian Star Tortoise were hard to keep but that's not true. Easier than looking after a Bearded by far. And they live for like 30-50 years so you wont have to worry about them dying before you. They have really long digestive systems so go toilet maybe once a every two weeks maybe. Most hassle free and hardiest pet I have ever kept.I

Wait, so ralph doesnt need to like dig or anything? I want a tortoise but i thought they needed lots of space

 

[Skybug]

Ralph has tons of personality! He does the sexy leg every time he sunbathes! He's so low maintenance and really easy and cheap to keep! There were rumours that Indian Star Tortoise were hard to keep but that's not true. Easier than looking after a Bearded by far. And they live for like 30-50 years so you wont have to worry about them dying before you. They have really long digestive systems so go toilet maybe once a every two weeks maybe. Most hassle free and hardiest pet I have ever kept.

I love the sexy leg keep us updated on them both, id love to see how their relationship blossoms

 

[Monstermug]

I definitely will. They are still pretty much ignoring each other. Ralph doesn't get notice by Lizzy as he is mostly stationery and his movements are so predictable and slow that it doesn't disturb Lizzy in anyway whatsoever. Lizzy has not bothered Ralph or shown any signs of aggression or provocation and therefore Ralph carries on his daily routine.

I still think Lizzy's size is rather abnormal for her age. She was hatched on the 11th of March 2021. That makes her currently 9 weeks and 6 days or 2 months and 8 days to be exact. Her weight is 130g and she is reaching the 15 inch mark. Probably 16 once her tail finishes shedding. Now even according to the German Giant growth charts that is huge.

Surely this growth rate cannot be good. Generally with all living things, the faster their metabolism is the faster they die! Hope it slows down soon.

 

[Skybug]

Another forum member said his bearded dragon lived to 20! And wow your beardie IS growing like a weed, do you think having a tank mate maybe has something to do with it? (I know u said you feed them separately) but maybe lizzy is thinking “if i dont eat all my food this walking rock will get it” cause lizzy must observe ralph eating his food, it takes him like 10-20 minutes right? Idk

 

[Monstermug]

Another forum member said his bearded dragon lived to 20! And wow your beardie IS growing like a weed, do you think having a tank mate maybe has something to do with it? (I know u said you feed them separately) but maybe lizzy is thinking “if i dont eat all my food this walking rock will get it” cause lizzy must observe ralph eating his food, it takes him like 10-20 minutes right? Idk

Yes she's about the size of a 5 month old according to the charts and I haven't seen her stop yet. Back to back shedding. She doesn't seem to get fat either. Just longer and bigger.

No I don't think its anything to do with cohabiting with Ralph at all. It's most probably something I am doing or maybe multiple things but I don't know what. In the morning I wait until she eats as much salad as she can and then I start feeding her locust. I do feed her as much as she can eat but more often than trying to give her as much as she can eat in 15 minutes. This is because after the first bite she won't eat another one for a few minutes afterwards. I just keep feeding her until she closes her eyes and just stares into the distance. At this point she would of eaten maybe 3 or 4 at the most. Then every hour or so I would put a locust in front of her and if she eats it then I try again until she doesn't want anymore. If she still doesn't want any, I leave her and maybe come back a few hours later. At that point she would have eaten another few more. I do this throughout the day and if I am busy I just cut the legs off and leave it in her salad bowl for her to eat whenever she feels like it.

I don't like to let them roam as I can't see if she's eaten them or they have hidden. Also they disturb Ralph all the time and he hates it.

Basically, she is never hungry. If I follow the 15 minute rule she doesn't get much to eat and most of the time, I don't have 15 minutes to sit there and feed her. I avoid feeding her a few hours before the lights go out but by that time she isn't interested in eating much anyway. Anyway, people seem to take the 15 minute rule as a bible. I think it's just to prevent over feeding rather than anything else. I probably have said this before but in the wild locust just don't magically hop into their mouths for, 15 minutes a day, three times daily.

So its basically same amount but a lot more often throughout the day. She poos like twice or even three times a day now and because I feed her often, I can quickly remove the faeces before it gets painted everywhere by Ralph and vice versa.

Temperature is on the low side of the recommendations and she is spoon fed calcium maybe once or twice a week, rather than dusting the locust. Dipping locust in calcium is a messy job. I do dust whatever that goes in her salad bowl including the legless locust. Once I saw one trying to eat and was sadistically amusing watching it wiggle over the leaf. I keep trying to feed any that has been cut as quickly as possible. But u cut their legs of and she doesn't want to eat it, there is nothing I can really do. To end its life would be a waste.

Apart from that I don't really do anything else besides the norm but make sure she gets fresh salad all the time. Another thing I notice is that she eats more locusts if I cut their legs off. Maybe the legs are sticking and hurting her digestive tracts? Those legs seems to stick to anything like Velcro. I do try variety but she doesn't like anything else. Sometimes she might take something new on the first bite but that's it.

If it's not something I am doing then its probably just her. Just worried it's not good for her that's all. 20 years must be a record? Sorry for the long post!

 

[Monstermug]

Just a little update. Noticed Lizzy wasn't eating anything today and had her mouth opened a lot. On closer inspection she had some dead skin stuck in her nose. Noticed her behaviour getting stranger for a few days now but just dismissed it as shedding pains. Anyway, there was a minute piece still sticking out and she sat completely still to let me pulled it. Immediately, she ate 5 locusts in a row. So maybe we can add that to a possible reason why dragons would open their mouths for no apparent reason.

 

[Sadie]

Just a little update. Noticed Lizzy wasn't eating anything today and had her mouth opened a lot. On closer inspection she had some dead skin stuck in her nose. Noticed her behaviour getting stranger for a few days now but just dismissed it as shedding pains. Anyway, there was a minute piece still sticking out and she sat completely still to let me pulled it. Immediately, she ate 5 locusts in a row. So maybe we can add that to a possible reason why dragons would open their mouths for no apparent reason.

Shed and gaping are two common reasons for the mouth opened -- please dont pull anymore shed - you can mist the nose so it loosens the shed and eventually they will blow it out -- gaping is when they are adjusting the body temp --- normal and healthy --

 

[Monstermug]

Yes it was loose but still stuck inside. It came out really easily and I made sure i didn't yank it out. She kinda of liked it to be honest. The time it takes for her to shed is getting much longer than when she was smaller. Is that normal too? She used go white and complete the shed in a few days. Now its like a week or more.

 

[Sadie]

Yes it was loose but still stuck inside. It came out really easily and I made sure i didn't yank it out. She kinda of liked it to be honest. The time it takes for her to shed is getting much longer than when she was smaller. Is that normal too? She used go white and complete the shed in a few days. Now its like a week or more.

Yes that is normal --- just let it do its thing- when it gets dry and crackly spray or mist her take a soft baby toothbrush and gently brush the loose skin