"Lizzy" says Hi.

[Monstermug]

Although I'm not new to keeping reptiles, I am new to keeping bearded dragons. This is Lizzy, a 8 weeks old Hypo Trans female. This picture was taken 2 weeks ago. She is currently about 14 inches long which according to the charts seems a bit abnormal? Her parents were not giants so maybe she's just love's eating.

She's currently living happily with my 3 years old Indian star tortoise who just ignores her and vice versa. The vivarium is 5ft long and 2ft deep. She sorts of occupies the top half whilst the tortoise roams the bottom half. When she's older she may need some netting to connect the vines together but she's still small enough to cling on them for now.

This is a picture of Lizzy today. About 50% bigger than the first picture! It's almost 1:1 ratio.

And this is Raphael named after the ninja turtles of course. Not me. Blame the kids. Currently looking grumpy as I turned him round for a photoshoot. He was 500 grams when I last weight him a month ago. He won't grow much bigger than this according to the internet but then again still has another 3 more years of growing left. He is as heavy as a rock and acts like one too and likes to travel in a straight line. Initially I was worried about aerial bombs from above but Lizzy respects him by going in the same spot in the corner of the enclosure and at exactly the right time too. Bless her.

He on the other hand just goes in his food bowl when he doesn't get what he wants to eat knowing full well, we change it straight away. Who says reptiles are dumb!

 

[Monstermug]

Apologies for the greenish tinted pictures. Probably a result of all the uva and uvb lighting!

 

[Monstermug]

Forgot to post a picture of her when we first got her!

 

[Skybug]

Welcome to the forum ! very cute lizard and tortoise, you’re beardie looks fat and happy! may i ask what kind of uvb is being offered? Temps in the enclosure? Make shure you’re taking temps with a digital probe, stick ons only messure air temp, Im assuming an MVB? (These usually putt off a green tint) Please please please NO COMPACT COIL uvb bulbs, these WILL hurt your beardie and offer little to no uvb/uva, i love that they’re friends!! But i will caution you, if your beardie ends up being male , that tortoise will need a separate enclosure, lizzy (if a male will be aggressive towards him) and bite and nip at him (although i dont think much damage could be done) , it would stress all who are involved, and thats not fair, question what does the torts poop look like? You need to be cautious of lizzy eating the poop, aswell as the other way around, ill be honest ive never seen or heard of a tort cohabitation with a beardie, but i dont see why they cant other than the beardie being male, lots of people are gonna come on this post and say you shouldn’t cohab them, im just preparing you.

 

[Monstermug]

Welcome to the forum ! very cute lizard and tortoise, you’re beardie looks fat and happy! may i ask what kind of uvb is being offered? Temps in the enclosure? Make shure you’re taking temps with a digital probe, stick ons only messure air temp, Im assuming an MVB? (These usually putt off a green tint) Please please please NO COMPACT COIL uvb bulbs, these WILL hurt your beardie and offer little to no uvb/uva, i love that they’re friends!! But i will caution you, if your beardie ends up being male , that tortoise will need a separate enclosure, lizzy (if a male will be aggressive towards him) and bite and nip at him (although i dont think much damage could be done) , it would stress all who are involved, and thats not fair, question what does the torts poop look like? You need to be cautious of lizzy eating the poop, aswell as the other way around, ill be honest ive never seen or heard of a tort cohabitation with a beardie, but i dont see why they cant other than the beardie being male, lots of people are gonna come on this post and say you shouldn’t cohab them, im just preparing you.

Yes I have numerous digital automatic devices that controls the lighting and temperature and humidity in the vivarium, providing a temperate gradient across the length of the vivarium. Both species shares roughly the same environmental conditions (maybe a little lower humidity for the Lizzy) but I'm not completely sold on the high humidity theory for Tortoises pyramiding anyway. Personally, I think hydration/diet is more a relevant issue when it comes to pyramiding. Also I am not completely sold on recreating the super dry/hot desert conditions found in Australia either. Although they may tolerate these conditions, its not one where they would thrive in.

Thank you for your advice on the male/female territory behaviour. I had only thought it was between their own species. I highly doubt Lizzy would be able to harm Ralph though, he would retreat in his shell at the first sign of danger. At the moment Lizzy seems to enjoy the company of Ralph and have seen her lick him and climb on his back for a slow motion ride to the salad bowl. I keep Lizzy's food bowl on top of a ledge which Ralph is not able to eat so no chance of him accidently grabbing a bite of Locust/fruits although Ralph will only eat a certain type of staple greens he has been raised from. He will not touch anything else. However Lizzy can happily share Ralphs food if she wants too.

Lizzy would poop in the corner and run a mile away from it. She is so spoilt that I doubt poop would even come into her mind. Besides Ralph is on 100% leafy greens so he only goes once a week which we remove instantly. This may not be the case with other Tortoise and Beardys however so don't go out rushing to home these two together! It's just what I have observed in the last 8 weeks.

Of course if necessary, I will rehouse either of the two in my spare Vivarium but they seem to enjoy each others company and Ralph seems a lot happier in there since Lizzy was introduced. Hopefully he doesn't bulldoze Lizzy if Lizzy decides to have a nap on the floor.

Indian Star Tortoise poop looks very much like a bearded dragons poop although he doesn't have the white urates in it. I've read that this is because he is hydrated? I have never seen him poop urates since he was about 5cms big and doesn't smell one little bit. Lizzy however smells like human poop but more creamier? I have very sensitive nose and have no idea if this smell is supposed to be correct but it's definitely foul. Is there a smell chart anywhere?

Indian Star Tortoise poop = Low to no smell (mouldy vegetables)
Bearded Dragon poop = bad to intolerable (like human poop)

At first I was a little worried about passing on infections but if they did they would have been both ill by now which they are not. But then again I keep the Vivarium spotless on a daily if not hourly basis if I have nothing better to do.

If I find that they cannot cohabit the same Vivarium then I will definitely be sure to update this post so others may know. But at the moment it's living proof that they seem to be fine together if not thriving.

What I am curious about is why does she like to sleep at a vertical angle all the time? I presume it has something to aid digestion and partly to do with the spinal cord being close to their digestion organs? And what does that look mean? The bearded look where they slant their heads and look at you with one eye. She does that to me every time I put her in for a bath. A bit like what are you doing Human?

I like to keep night time temperature on the slightly warmer side to aid digestion and avoid any possibilities of impaction in Ralph and I guess it would apply to Lizzy too. There is still a notable difference in day/night though to allow them to sleep. Anyway, first thing Lizzy does in the morning is do a big one in the corner after a full nights digestion. She does it like clockwork. Occasionally one about this time too. Ralph on the other hand is highly unpredictable but before he goes he likes to do a few laps of the Vivarium.

 

[Sadie]

Colored lights are bad for dragons period !! and a amphibian and desert animal should not be housed together---- too many diseases one could pass to the other --------------- just saying ---

 

[Monstermug]

Forgot to mention, unless Lizzy is able to change sex, she is definitely a female according to online pictures and descriptions. We had to rename Ralph as he was sold to me as a female. Oh and no I don't even use compact bulbs in my house. They are rubbish and should have never been invented.

No coloured lights in there buddy. It's not a party.

 

[Sadie]

Forgot to mention, unless Lizzy is able to change sex, she is definitely a female according to online pictures and descriptions. We had to rename Ralph as he was sold to me as a female. Oh and no I don't even use compact bulbs in my house. They are rubbish and should have never been invented.

No coloured lights in there buddy. It's not a party.

What is the green hue? above the turtle

 

[Monstermug]

I'm guessing it's the way my phone camera is picking up the UV light source or the refraction against the tiles? Absolutely no idea but my eyes can't pick it up. All I see is yellowish sunrays. Maybe that's how lizards see it..

 

[Monstermug]

There is no greenish tint in this picture, its the same Vivarium and is more closely to what I can see.

 

[Sadie]

I'm guessing it's the way my phone camera is picking up the UV light source or the refraction against the tiles? Absolutely no idea but my eyes can't pick it up. All I see is yellowish sunrays. Maybe that's how lizards see it..

They have better eye sight than we do -- they have a 3rd eye on top of their heads for predators and colored bulbs distort their eyesight - they need darkness and cool to sleep--- nothing below 65 at night -- humidity needs to be 30-50 % that is optimal --- too much can cause RI's

 

[Monstermug]

Daytime humidity is at a constant 45% and night time goes up to about 50-55% relative. As for temperature; in the vicinity of the basking area, it's about 36 degrees, and in the far end about 27 degrees average day time. At night time its all round about 25 degrees although I do sometimes, manually turn it up a few degrees if Lizzy or Ralph has had a late night snack. It's what I have been doing it for last three years for Ralph. Lizzy seems to like this routine too. All the electronics take care of all that and alarms to alert me if the conditions are not within parameters. All I have to worry about is cleaning any waste and making sure that the salad is fresh and not dried up which doesn't really take more than 10 minutes a day. Not that I am OCD or anything, it's just that the Vivarium is next to our dining table so my other half does it if I don't.

When I first got Ralph I was into the humidity theory. Had misters make the humidity really high like 60% relative, as advised, but all that caused was breathing problems as I started to see Ralph blowing bubbles out of his nose every morning. I quickly scrapped that idea and made my own theory about food/hydration and that seems to be working great so far!

I've been feeding Lizzy a few locust every hour or so. as she would only eat a few at a time but very often. I've been advised that you have to feed them 3 times a day and anything they can eat in 15 minutes. I'm not sure if I can buy that as logic tells me that in the wild food don't just magically appear three times a day for 15 minutes. I assume like Tortoises they need a more constant supply of food rather than too much in less sittings? Ralph's routine is eat, sunbathe, eat sunbathe, .... x 5 more and then sleep. Rinse and repeat. Sometimes I get envious of his life. On the other hand Lizzy only sleeps at night and has a very clever way of telling me she is hungry. She would pretend to eat her greens then look at me. If I don't respond she would do a little wiggle and then lick her bowl, then give me that "look". Funny girl! Anybody else get this?

 

[Monstermug]

They have better eye sight than we do

I read about that but wondered why does Lizzy take a few seconds to see a locust right in front of her face? It's like she's in a dream and then suddenly it hits her that there's food and she snaps at it. Sometimes I even have to wave it around. Is it the movement that they see? Hence the reason why they think if they stand still nobody can see them?

 

[Skybug]

If there was to be a species to cobab with your beardie i think u chose a good one, (as long as your beardie isnt a male) thats my only concern, as for lizzys poo, next time take a picture of it and post it, it should smell but not horribly, if it stinks so bad that you’re about to faint or leave the room then that could be a sign of parasites, keep me posted on their relationship, id love to see more of them in the future, its good you introduced them together when lizzy was younger, that will definitely work to your benefit although not everyone may agree with cohabiting beardies, i think in your situation you’ve given them the best possible chances to be together.

 

[Skybug]

Do you have any hibiscus that u offer ralph? If not id possibly look into getting a couple plants, ive heard they LOVE it, and your beardie might too, my beardie loves the fresh new young leaves from hibiscus.

 

[Monstermug]

If there was to be a species to cobab with your beardie i think u chose a good one, (as long as your beardie isnt a male) thats my only concern, as for lizzys poo, next time take a picture of it and post it, it should smell but not horribly, if it stinks so bad that you’re about to faint or leave the room then that could be a sign of parasites, keep me posted on their relationship, id love to see more of them in the future, its good you introduced them together when lizzy was younger, that will definitely work to your benefit although not everyone may agree with cohabiting beardies, i think in your situation you’ve given them the best possible chances to be together.

It be interesting to see how they cope when Lizzy is adult size. Will snap a picture of Lizzy's Poo tomorrow morning. It's got form to it (kind of long) with some exoskeletal matter sometimes, and is brown and is soft and wet to touch and some urates at the end. But I'm sure you can tell me if it's healthy or not tomorrow. It has always stunk like this from the day I got her just now its like 50 times the size they used to be. Thank god her diet will be mainly greens when she's older!

Do you have any hibiscus that u offer ralph? If not id possibly look into getting a couple plants, ive heard they LOVE it, and your beardie might too, my beardie loves the fresh new young leaves from hibiscus.

I did buy a hibiscus plant but Ralph doesn't eat anything but his staples for some reason. He likes his routine. It's like groundhog day for him and he loves it. I'll definitely offer Lizzy some when it goes into bloom again although I fear I may have killed it as I can't grow anything but weeds.

 

[Skybug]

Ahh thats a shame he doesn’t eat it.... maybe lizzy will...What vitamins is lizzy getting? Pictures would help (im not too familiar with brands) and this is My beardie steffern, and my tokay gecko (yet to be named, trying to find a good plant name for him) this little meeting only lasted maybe 15 seconds, i wanted to gauge a reaction, i got none lol, my beardies Very docile and kisses our dog and has lots of outside time (i live in FL and have an outside screened in area she can roam free in for outside time, theres lizards always running around and she doesn’t even care) i was more worried how my tokay would react, he didn’t at all, probably thought steffern was a statue lol.

 

[Monstermug]

So cute. Never seen that black one before. I've seen a red eyed crocodile that looks a bit like him. How old are they? They look in great shape too. Is that shedding skin on his back and near his mouth? Nice to live in a hot climate. I can't take out Lizzy for more than 10 minutes without her loosing her body heat.

Anyway, as requested she did it right on time today as usual.

Spoiler: Open this picture at your peril.

Although it looks hard it's very soft and just mushes up very easily when handled with tissue. Softer than mashed potatoes. Looks like she's been swallowing them whole too. She eats XL locust now I think they are labelled Size 5? One more shed and they start to grow wings sizes. And if she can't eat them in time and they grow wings, I end up having to cut the legs and wings off those poor guys just to avoid any risk of impaction. She rarely touches Crickets and Dubia Roaches for some reason and I just don't have the time and patience to coax her to eat them. She closes her eyes when I try give them to her. And she does eat salad. Maybe 10% at most. The only way I can force her to eat more greens is to gut feed the locusts before she eats them. Sort of like the last supper.

 

[WICKEDPOGONA]

Tortoises are actually the most common cohab with beardies even huge salcata tortoises no matter how big the tortoise is it womt be a threat they are vegetarian . Russian tortoises are great choice as they dont get much big same husbandry also herman tortoises I've thought about doing it myself never seen cohab with this species before

 

[Monstermug]

Lincoln Park Zoo in Manitowoc, Wisconsin keeps Russian tortoises with Bearded dragons in the same enclosure too but I guess we cannot compare our tiny habitat to the space Zoo's can provide their animals. Today I saw Lizzy just trample over him as if he was a rock. Didn't hurt him one bit and carried on eating after Lizzy removed her fat ass from his face. I'm sure he will get his own back one day when she's sunbathing on the floor. He can easily move objects twice his weight without any effort.

Indian Star Tortoise are generally the same size or very slightly bigger than the Russians. With the male growing up to 8" as opposed to the 6" of the Russian. Star Tortoise have a significantly taller carapace than most turtles and perhaps because of this are more susceptible to pyramiding. In fact I think it was once believed to be normal. Their diet is 100% leafy greens and nothing that binds calcium in any way. That means zero fruits or protein.

The slight bump on Ralphs back (Pictures at the top) was already there when he was a baby. The breeder just kept them in an open top tortoise table and feed it a high fibrous diet. He advised me to not put him in a Vivarium but I didn't want to look after a spikey tortoise for 40 odd years. His parents had significant pyramiding so I don't believe it to be genetics.

I might try find a Female Indian Star to test my theory and see if I can obtain a 100% perfect shaped Tortoises. They are endangered species and illegal to trade them, so will also being doing my part in helping the species. Trouble is they are not easy to find for sale.