Culling and ethics (touchy subject)

[Vesta]

I am stronger than most people might think!!!

If there was a clutch that had proven genetic flaws. I would keep them myself or find homes that I was certain would not use them for breeding purposes. I would not kill because of imperfection. If however I thought an animal was suffering. I DO believe I have it in me to do whatever had to be done to end it's suffering!!!

 

[ladyknite]

it's not the actual answer I'm after but the reaction of the posters Wink

interesting..............very interesting.

I believe that culling is an act most would choose not to have to take. Including myself if I could change time.

However, with the degrading stock in the US.......we've created issues that are resided to bound and rebound time and time again. What means of control of those situations do we propose should be taken?
To think that you could rehome some 20-30 genetically altered (not in a good way) or immune suppressed dragons (for every 3 clutches) to homes that wouldn't breed them, provide them excellent pet care, and keep them their entire lives (regardless how short or long that would be) is not realistic. You stand a better chance of becoming prey to wholesalers.

With that said.......let me tell you something you don't know about Gina.
In the 90's I owned and operated the Founders Cave Reptile Rescue. I own a small warehouse which was my point of operation. In that time, I received a total of 5 shipments containing 15-20 baby dragons each. All less than 4 weeks old. The boxes reaked of death, and upon opening, 1 or 2 had not survived the trip. Nothing unusual for a rescue....so we carried on. In the days that followed, we watched at least 20 babies go from looking perfectly normal to withering and dying regardless of our efforts. Keep in mind..........I said

I'm definately not into watching things have a long, slow painful death.

so watching this happen went against everything i believed in. I sent remains for necropsy and results were returned as adenovirus and secondary liver and kidney failure. By this time, another 10 or so had passed as we watched. It seemed like we were doing nothing to help them, but we were doing everything we knew how.
At the point of the results, I had an understanding. I also could directly relate to organ failure and how painful and agonizing that was for any living thing. I simply could not reason calling myself humane enough to allow them to suffer their fate. I will add that not all results prove a fatal end........but it is easy to recognize.

I've dealt with many things in rescue regarding health issues that cannot be fixed, made better or relieved from pain. And believe i have a pretty good understanding of that. Now that I'm no longer operating a rescue and don't have those issues with my own animals.......life has become alot less painful.

I guess my point here is this..........
It would be an absolutely horrible thing to think anyone particularly liked to cull anything. But sometimes the situation requires it. If honesty prevailed in people......maybe it wouldn't be like that.

In the words of Forest Gump
That's all I got to say about that!

 

[crypticdragons]

I would like for someone "In the Know" to post what is in fact the "best" prescribed method for home euthanazia in reptiles. I have never found a flat out answer as to the fastest and most pain free way short of lethal injection. Anyone?

 

[ladyknite]

the "best" prescribed method for home euthanazia

I'll take that, but don't consider myself "in the know" and honestly resent that.

The answer is...........................there is no best method. I could advocate for lethal injection, gas, the quick medula oblongata severage, or any number of different methods. Each has it's own drawback. There is no one perfect means or mode.

Candice pointed out why freezing isn't right. I've seen a snake hit freshly thawed water in the very early spring. You can see the painful efforts of it's attempted escape for the short minute or so it lasts.

Francis pointed out that gas can take an extended time period and if you're wrong in calculations, witnessing the remainder is quite gruesome to say the least.

Severage is the most brutally savage, yet is truly the quickest and the least painful for the animal. But humans to think to much and equate emotion where logic should rule. They also have very bad aim. Needless to say, not effective or efficient.

your typical "chemical euth" they use on dogs and cats doesn't work well on reptiles and the possibility of that animal living past the point of viable dosage is possible, although not common. Again, if that happens, not effective nor efficient.

I believe that with each situation there are multiple roots to the same answer and one must rely on their own experiences and mind to come to those conclusions. After all..........it's not what i can do that affects you........its what you can do and live with right?

 

[crypticdragons]

the "best" prescribed method for home euthanazia

I'll take that, but don't consider myself "in the know" and honestly resent that.

That comment was not directed at any particular person. You know as well as I do that if I want to ask you something directly I do. It was more of people that have had to put reptiles down and possibly used various methods.

Sorry I offended you it was not intended

 

[ladyknite]

you still don't get my humor.

 

[crypticdragons]

you still don't get my humor.

 

[crypticdragons]

continuation question for this thread

It is said that though violent that the total destruction of the bain is the best way. Now here is my question. Is there a chart (I can't find it on google) that maps all major organs in a bearded dragon? Mainly the skull to show exact placement of the brain within the skull and what not.

 

[northface75]

well, I'm pretty sure your bases will be covered if you use a 10lb stone hammer. (maul)

(kidding )

 

[ladyknite]

if you can't google it.........then apparently not.
my guess is that you would want a total brain necropsy photo.

 

[crypticdragons]

if you can't google it.........then apparently not.
my guess is that you would want a total brain necropsy photo.

well ok then lol.

Ill find one just not while I am at work (search ability is severly limited on military computers)

 

[northface75]

tsk tsk, talking on forums on the goverments dime...DoD frowns upon that...

 

[crypticdragons]

tsk tsk, talking on forums on the goverments dime...DoD frowns upon that...

I am in the office from 0530-1630 gotta do something to keep me from loosing my mind. Besides I get far more work done than most of the people in my wing that dont peruze the internet during the day lol.

Its all about productivity

 

[northface75]

Its all about looking busy. well, at least it was for me. I served 6 years in the Army National Guard. woohoo. and I STILL get calls from recruiters...bastards..

 

[ladyknite]

the skull is pretty simplistic and basic. The brain is shaped like that of one of those little round nuts at Christmas. (I can't remember the name).
necropsy photos show you organ placement.

 

[northface75]

chestnuts?

 

[ladyknite]

smaller than that......looks like an acorn,,....but different.

 

[Vesta]

Hazelnuts.

 

[crypticdragons]

Here is a visual for you (warning picture of dragon brain)

brain

 

[northface75]

looks like...bubble gum...