Temp fluctuations - nothing has changed

[Pogie]

I'm really confused

I havent changed a single thing in Pogies viv the past 2 months.
Now the past 5 days her basking temps are way way up (107 / 113 / 116 ), . . . how is it possible. The light should get weaker as it gets older shouldnt it, not STRONGER :-\ :-\ :-\

And its not summer, its winter, thus getting colder in the house daily with an average of 62F in the day hitting max temps of 69.
In the summer when I got her the house temps were 84-96 and her basking temps were FINE (102-108) depending

Any ideas? As its freaking me out (And P as well) she is more in the cool end now and after a while in the hot side she either crawls under her blankie or goes under the platform till shes cold.

 

[ladyknite]

Most likely it's a change in air FLOW, not temp that's affecting her temps. I'll bet you had some sort of a/c, or fan circulating air in the summer right?

there ya go. a fan will circulate warm air the same as it does cool air.
either turn a fan on, or drop the bulb wattage by 5.

 

[Pogie]

Most likely it's a change in air FLOW, not temp that's affecting her temps. I'll bet you had some sort of a/c, or fan circulating air in the summer right?

No fans, but more windows open . . . . could that do it?

or drop the bulb wattage by 5.

Its a 60W at the mo . . . . we dont get them in 5 increments here, one smaller would be 40W.

I also have a 50W hallogen, but it would require changing the fittings and electrical wiring *could do that quick quick, no biggy* But I read hallogen gives more heat with lower watts than norm bulbs. So a 50 W hallogen would be equal to about . . . . 70 W??????

I switched off her basking lamp an hour ago. Temps are falling QUICK. 77 throughout the viv now. Will put it back on when they get to 65.

 

[ladyknite]

yup, open windows will do the same if you maintain good cross vent in the room.

I don't get in a hurry to do much of anything anymore. lol..........I guess it's age. If it were me I'd observe her under these conditions for 3 days to see if she adapts.

But in case you don't wanna do that......................

hallogen will provide more heat. do they have a 40 watt hallogen?

can you raise your basking lamp or lower your basking site to alter temps?

Her temps aren't that bad. She could just be reacting to the change.

 

[Pogie]

Thanx, Ill watch her a few more days. Dont think it can hurt any..... Come to think of it its about when the temps shot up that she started eating less crickets. :-\
But she still eats 20-30 Large daily. Plus salads

Will update in a few days
Thanx for the help and info

Will also look into diff wattages for hallogen bulbs as they will definately save me on my power bill and with our 33% power hike, I need to save where and IF I can.

 

[Pogie]

Thought of something just now . . . .

In summer the house temps drop to about 68/69 at night which means her VIV does the same.
But now in winter it drops to 42/48 so I use a CHE.
This keeps the VIV at 77/78 at night.

Maybe the increased temps that the viv starts off with in the morning is contributing to it reaching higher temps during the day ???

 

[li]

I don't think so. Yes they start out warmer, but after 2 hours or so all should even out. I think it is what LK was saying with different air flow and such.

 

[Red Ink AUS]

In summer the house temps drop to about 68/69 at night which means her VIV does the same.
But now in winter it drops to 42/48 so I use a CHE.
This keeps the VIV at 77/78 at night.

How is the CHE controlled? Thermostat? Left on all night and turned off in the morning?

77/78F air temps before the basking light goes on, then the basking light on with the air temps already warm = one hotter viv.

 

[Pogie]

How is the CHE controlled? Thermostat? Left on all night and turned off in the morning?

Yip exactly like that. Gets turned on an hour after lights off and turns off when lights come on. So I adjusted the timer last night to switch off an hour before she wakes up.
Nothing.....
Temps were already 73 cool and 91 hot 10 mins after lights on.
Now I have ALL the windows open (IN winter and I'm FREEZIN ME ARSE OFF) and temps are
75 cool and 111 Hot

Its now 11AM

 

[ladyknite]

sounds to me as if you're gonna have to alter the bulb wattage.

 

[Pogie]

OK, so what have I done so far...........

It occured to me maybe the original digi thermometer was faulty, so I took the one from the cool end and placed it next to the basking one.
Original ones reading was 114
Cool side one was 111
Readings taken after 1 hour

So figure the readings are accurate, the diff between the two arent that big.

Changed the bulb to a 40W normal household bulb at 3PM and wish I could get a reading. Pogie has been kicking the probes off the platform. Then I pick them up, now she has decided its FUN to lie on top of them. SO will update as soon as I can get a reading from the LIGHT and not her STOMACH

Another Q though .. ....
The one has a black probe, the other white.
I know black absorbs heat, can that make a difference as its the black ones reading thats higher.
Ive been using the black one on the basking spot and the white one on the cool end, but can swop them around..... What do you think?

 

[ladyknite]

Ive been using the black one on the basking spot and the white one on the cool end, but can swop them around..... What do you think?

no difference more than 2 or 3 degrees. If we were talking about cooking eggs, it'd be a big deal......but not for basking temps.

 

[Pogie]

OK

What a day... The 40W was useless, gave me 77 in cool end and 82 in hot end. So I took it out
Got another type of 60W spot that I tried, NO GOOD, gave me 140 in the basking spot after only 1/2 hour. Platform was so hot I couldnt touch it. Fortunately P was on her log the whole time, so out it went

Now I have the 50W hallogen in, tilted at an angle. The spot directly under the beam it is a bit high at 114, but only 2 cm (0.78 inches) away it is a fair 107 - 110.

So Ill monitor her with the new hallogen and see how it goes.
Keep thumbs crossed.

 

[Pogie]

Im at my wits end :'( :'( :'(.... my stomach is in knots.

So after 2 hours of hallogen the digi read 59C / 138 and the probe isnt directly IN the beam.....
Thought I'd have heart failure

Now Ive got the other digi in there again....., so maybe the original one is broken ??? I hope so.
Its been about 20mins now and the 2 readings are

42 and 52 (107 and 125)
Pogie is very sleepy, but doesnt feel hot, actually her face and neck feel cool while het tummy feels just normal warm

Please keep fingers/toes and all crossed that I can get this right. Im sick with worry that she may get ill due to incorrect temps and / or thermometers

 

[TheVirus]

Man you come off as stressed. I hope I can help

How is your enclosure ventilated? Too much air movement makes it hard to keep steady temps.

What are you using as a basking area? I've seen it, but never used anything like it, so I don't know how it performs.

The color and material of your basking site is important. The reason is, some surfaces are more porous than others. Porous surfaces will not transfer heat from one object to the next as well as something more smooth.

I can heat a frying pan to 150* and my beardie will stay away from it. I can heat a piece of plywood to 150* and my beardie will use it. The rate of heat transfer from the plywood to my dragon will be slower, so he will be able to take advantage of being close to the bulb thats radiating heat from above.

If the surface your dragon basks on transfers heat too quickly, he won't use it for fear of being burned (unless he has to). If it doesn't transfer heat too quickly, then it doesn't matter if its 120*, and you can just worry about the air temps on the hot and cool side.

 

[Pogie]

Stressed isnt the word. Thought I was gonna have a breakdown.

The platform is made of Polystyrene coated with expanda foam, then sealed with grout and painted over with brown waterproof roof paint.
Dont think its porous at all, since when I sparay /mist her the water that drips off makes puddles, and doesnt get absorbed. I have to physically dry it up.
When I took the 60C/140 reading yesterday, the platform right below the basking lamp was soooo hot I almost got a blister when I touched it, so I covered the platform with a fleece blankie so she wouldnt touch it.

My OH is gonna help me today to cut a triangular pice of wood so we can mount the basking lamp at an angle, so the direct beam gets directed OFF the platform.
It will hopefully be better.
Ill take a pic of the platform from directly above and indicate the diff temps on the different areas during the day and post a bit later.

The VIV came out with two vents at the top of the screen, one on the hot side one on the cold side
It wasnt enough for me in summer so I took a piece of perspex which I drilled holes into that I slot into the side by her glass doors. I can then use the glass doors as an adjuster to have more or less holes open for more or less ventialtion.

Like this

See on the left is the perspex with holes

 

[TheVirus]

Nice enclosure!

The goal is to get good air temps with the lowest watt bulb possible. Air temps can be low 70's on the cool side and low hundreds on the hot side. Once you establish this, the basking spot is easy. Simply raise or lower the platform until you get your desired temps.

Your platform, or basking area, is very pretty, but may not be functional for your dragon. The heat transfer from the platform to his belly may be too fast. What ends up happening is you get a dragon that doesn't bask properly, and gets fat. He won't be able to benefit from the heat radiating from the bulb.

I use 1/4 inch thick plywood. I like it because it doesn't transfer heat too fast to the animal (almost perfect). I can put the boards 6 inches away from the bulbs, get surface readings of 150*, and my dragons use it. It also heats up all the way through, so my animals can hide under it and still warm up.

 

[Pogie]

Thanx TV

I think that was one of my mistakes. If I put the probe directly touching the platform I get the huge readings. So It is now 2mm above the platform.
Getting readings between 102/107

I also did the wood block trick to mount the halogen bulb on, it is now at an angle. I can also rotate it 360 deg. So in summer when the temps may get hotter I can swivel it to hit less of the platform for basking but still maintaining the overall temps of the viv. Then again in winter I can swivel it back hitting more of the platform, raising the basking temps and still maintaining the overall viv temps.

I can also use this swivel motion throughout the day. Mornings when its cooler it can be more over the platform and afternoons when its hotter I can swivel it away again.

I have already noticed a change in her behavior. She spent almost 70% of today ON the platform in different spots where the past week or so she would hide most of the day till she was freezing.

I also made another perspex vent for the hot side to improve air circulation (PIC below)

Here are some pics, maybe it can help someone else someday in similar position.

The light setup

The platform / probe

The vents made of perspex on either side

I just also wanted to say thanx again to all who helped me with this one. I never want to be this stressed ever again. :-\

 

[Red Ink AUS]

For future reference Monique, glad you have it all sorted out

Old thread i made a while back (should have pointed it out to you earlier really)

http://mybeardie.com/bearded-dragon-forum/bearded-dragon-habitats/using-a-probe-thermometer/

 

[TheVirus]

I'm glad everything worked out. I don't usually help people directly. I'll post experiences and opinions, and try to get people to think, but I try not to help a person with a single husbandry problem.

The reason is, because I do things so differently, I have a hard time giving advise about one aspect of husbandry without having you redo everything from the ground up You seemed so stressed that I felt bad. I'm glad it all worked out. Good luck!!