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Re: Poor Poor Pogie - She is sick - UPDATE !!!!

Pogie

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OK, as you all know Pogie hasn’t been herself for the past month or so. At first I attributed it to her becoming an adult. Then to insufficient UV. But this week she hasn’t eaten ANYTHING except 3 cricks and 1 silk over 3 days and yesterday and today NOTHIING.

I started calling around for a vet to give me some meds advised by a friend. The exotic animal vet refused and said I had to bring her in and tests had to be done and then the meds. It would cost around R500 – R600 and I don’t have that kind of money.

So I called my Dad and he started calling vets he knew, eventually we were refered to a guy who actually is CLOSE to me. I called them and explained what I wanted and that I have a teeny bit of money if he could help. He said certainly and he also confirmed he did treat bearded dragons as they are the only other place in Gauteng (About 500 Km radius) who does treat exotic animals. And he was going on holiday @ 6PM and if I could make it before that he’d help me.

What a rush, I grabbed her carrier and heated her beanie bag and off we went.

Now this Vet I like, he seems to know his stuff (Much more than the one I saw in March)

He first got a full background from when I got her, then weighed her (Thank goodness she hasn’t lost anymore weight since Friday last). I told him what she weighed at her 1st vet visit on 17 March (71 gramms) and today she is 381g. He then felt her tummy and under the arms and got this look – I thought OMG here it comes, eggs.
He then started asking what Ive been feeding her and I said mainly cricks and about 7 silks so far. He then gave me the news.

She is in the early stages of Hepatopothy (Hope I spelled it correctly) – In short she has an enlarged liver and its the start of Fatty liver disease BUT we caught it early.
Apparently some dragons can not handle groth spurts well and since she only gained about 70 gm during her 1st 7 months and then 300+ during her next 6 Months her liver was stressed and under severe pressure. Her bones also cant keep up with the groth spurts she had in May/ June. He also said it was a long time coming about since her eating went from 40-60 daily to 10 (So it wasn’t adulthood afterall)
Now this enlarged liver has similar symptoms as we would have only she cant talk and tell me.
She is probably nauscious and that is also why she wont eat. Her body is telling her her liver is overworked and needs to rest. He gave her a Vit B injection and antibiotics (I have to take her back on Sunday and on Wedesday for the rest of the antibiotic treatment as it is injected not given orally).
He also gave her a dewormer and something he referred to as an injection of LIVER SUPPORT to get her liver to recuperate and function normally again.

So basically shes sick

He also said she probably wont eat till her liver is better, and when she does it should be little at a time as not to stress the liver again.

I think I left stuff out IDK Im just so worried right now, will post them if I remember

He did also add that otherwise and considdering her life so far SHES IN EXCELLENT CONDITION

OMG why do I feel so guilty? I know it depend on dragon to dragon but it feels like its my fault that I fed her too much
 

TheWolfmanTom

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Re: Poor Poor Pogie - She is sick

Dont beat yourself up on this.
You didnt do anything that anyone on here wouldnt do.
Its caught and it can be fixed.
 

crypticdragons

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Re: Poor Poor Pogie - She is sick

wow glad you caught that on her and got her looked at
good luck with everything
 

Pogie

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Re: Poor Poor Pogie - She is sick

Thanx, Brian Tom and Janie

Yeah I have read about this fleetingly and didn’t think it was possible :-\ as I haven’t ever fed her fattening foods like wax worms and such.
I mean shes only ever had crickets, 3 supers and about 7 silks and leafy greens.
But the explanation is understandable. Only gaining 70 odd grams for 7 months then all of a sudden food, her liver was used to getting fed every 2-3 days and then only 2-3 cricks per day, and all of a sudden she got as much as she wanted 2x daily. It would be enough to send anybodies body into a revolt.

My youngest son totally freaked at the vet when he pulled out the needle, crying and pleading for the vet not to hurt her. I felt so bad for him. :'(

Pogie gave the vet a black beard LOL it was the darkest ever, kinda charcoal grey as hers never goes totally black. When I picked her up to put her in the carrier to go home she opened her mouth as if to beard/hiss and then she got this look like she wanted to say “O gosh Ma, sorry didn’t see it was you, thought that mean man was gonna stick me with a needle again”

And poor Pogie is exhausted after the poking and prodding and injections and stuff, she went to the floor of the viv when we got home and went to sleep @6PM, 2 hours before bedtime. So I turned her lights off. After all sleep is the best meds right ?

I just hope she feels better soon, and to think 2 more injections to go
 

li

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Re: Poor Poor Pogie - She is sick

Feeding crix the way you did would not cause fatty liver disease. Feeding huge amounts as an adult can and that is why the cut down. Since your food was proper, my guess is this most likely is genetic and it was passed down from parents.

I am glad you caught this as fast as you did. Hopefully this vet will get her back into normal shape and things will be good.
 

staylor

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Re: Poor Poor Pogie - She is sick

This makes me think maybe a trip to the vet is in order for Piggy since she is not really eating much anymore
 

zebraflavencs

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Re: Poor Poor Pogie - She is sick

It never hurts to get things checked out..
 

Pogie

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Re: Poor Poor Pogie - She is sick

Well whatever the cause we got it in time.

And yes Sandra I agree with Janie, better safe than sorry. Id rather hear aww you wasted your time theres nothing wrong than kick myself if I leave it and something bad happens.
Thats what finally got me to take her today.
For the past week Ive been going something like this:
1. Ah its nothing, so what if she doesnt eat for a day or 2, she wont voluntarily starve
2. She needs time to adjust to Spring and the climate change
3. Shes an adult now and will have changes

BUT

As soon as I relaxed this little voice kept saying "Beardies dont really show illness, and when the symptoms are clear theyre usually really sick and most times cant be saved" Well the little voice that kept me up for the past 2 nights won, and I took her, And Im glad I did.
 

Red Ink AUS

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Re: Poor Poor Pogie - She is sick

Sorry to hear about Pogie Monique.

We had a pretty lengthy discussion about FLD a while back that might be of interest to you for reference. Hope she has a speedy recovery and is back to full health soon.

http://mybeardie.com/bearded-dragon-forum/bearded-dragon-health/hepatic-lipidosis-(fatty-liver-disease)-questions/
 

Debbe

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Re: Poor Poor Pogie - She is sick

I am sending get well wishes to Pogie. And a hug to Mom!
 

beardie_love

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Re: Poor Poor Pogie - She is sick

Awww poor Pogie. Best wishes to her. Take it easy, Monique; at least you were able to catch it in time and now it's being treated.
 

Pogie

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Re: Poor Poor Pogie - She is sick

Thanx Francis for the link. I read through it about 3x and it is very interresting, and confusing (to say the least).
When it comes to calculations of any kind I SUCK BIG TIME ::) So working out those 2 diets had me busy, and Im still not sure which is best LOL

Thanx Debbe, I needed that hug.

Debbe & Melissa, Ill let Pogie know you all are wishing her a speedy recovery.

She slept from 6pm till about 7am, then just lay under her blankie till about 10 (Thats when I finally woke up, guess I needed some sleep too) then I took it off her. She sat in the warm ent till about 12PM and now shes lying under her platform. Guess shes hiding cos she feels yukkie.
 

Pogie

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Re: Poor Poor Pogie - She is sick

Got a Question

I found this on the Internet
Modified by Administrator

http://www.exclusivedragons.com/HealthIssues.html

It's an article regarding Hepatic Lipodosis Syndrome



Now my question is this . . . as Im only seeing the vet again on Sunday I didnt want to wait if I should be doing something sooner. (maybe I should explain this, the actual vet (Malcolm) that diagnosed and treated Pogie went on leave last night, he was just waiting for us. He will be reachable telephonically on Sunday & wednesday for our follow ups if needed so It wont really help to call or ask them as the vet whos gonna do the follow up treatments are just gonna be doing what Malcolm said they should - Hes the only reptile vet at the parctice,)
Notice under treatment it states that bathing will help - should I be bathing her daily now or will it not make a difference?
It also mentions assisted feeding, but my vet said she wont eat till she feels a bit better and the liver swelling goes down.
Also how do I make sure she gets her calcium in if shes not eating or will the calcium boost the vet gave her suffice - maybe thats why he gave it to her.
 

zebraflavencs

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Re: Poor Poor Pogie - She is sick

Yes, bathing daily will help in a couple of ways, Monique.
Hydration- self explanatory.
Exercise- water takes the weight of the body off the animal, and makes limbs work, to prevent atrophy.

So yes.. I would bath her daily were I in your shoes.
Hope this helps.
 

Pogie

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Re: Poor Poor Pogie - She is sick

Thanx Janie,

Well just put P back in her viv after her nice bath. I know a bath or shower always makes me feel better when Im sick.

And boy did those limbs work. She was swimming a lot, she also started licking her lips as she saw the water, so I scooped it up in my nail and she drank and drank. Guess she was thirsty.

OH and she pooped a real good sized poop as well. ;D

I hope this makes her feel better
 

renich

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Re: Poor Poor Pogie - She is sick

Aw. poor Pogie. Fingers crossed that this passes and all will be well.
 

Pogie

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Re: Poor Poor Pogie - She is sick

OK, thanx all for the well wishes.
Now for a quick update.

Today she took 4 bites of her salad. ;D 1st meal shes had since Wed last *jumps up and down for joy*

Seeing the vet for round 2 of antibiotics tomorrow morning :-\
 

li

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Re: Poor Poor Pogie - She is sick

Realize that antibiotics can slow down the eating process too. It can take away all the good stuff that helps digestion. Normally i would recommend some acidophiles during this period. Check with the vet though because of the nature of the illness.
 

Pogie

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Re: Poor Poor Pogie - She is sick

Ill check, Thanx Lisa.

What is acidophiles
 

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