That sounds just awful. Virtually no research on a slightly particular reptile and he just up and dies. You don't want condolances, because you didn't like him. But you didn't like Rex much either when things weren't perfect. You went thru similar things with Tink. You honestly need to learn a little humility and some compassion for animals. maybe he wasn't friendly because he didn't like YOU. Maybe if you understood uros a little better you would have observed certain behaviors that could have led you to the vet and taken care of this problem. I find it shameful that someone can have an animal die and feel nothing but the callus harshness you stateJustus85 said:
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- Thread starter Justus85
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Perhaps it was callous of me not to feel any remorse. But to be honest I am also mad because I think I was swindled by the man selling my uro to me. He claimed all his Uro's were captive bred but Haj's behavior indicated anything but a domestically bred animal. He was probably very similar to how I assume Wally is. He looked to be in perfectly good health prior to this discovery. Not everybody feels the same way (emotionally) about all animals. Some people hunt any animal that moves, while some treat them as if they are on the same level as people and insist we should eat nothing but vegetables. I fed him daily, provided him with proper viv and lighting as indicated by the breeder, my effort was not lacking. Yes I had difficult and very frustrating times with Rex and Tink in the early stages but the difference with them is their issues were sorted out. Haj was the same from day one back in early October till the day he passed without a single indication of change. I think it unfair to assume that I didn't extensively research Uro handling methods and care; which I did. I spent hours combing the net and found the most info at repticzone.com. I was short with the info in my initial post regarding the circumstances of what happened and what had been done; I'll admit to that. But in the end I couldn't get close to him because he was more or less wild.
Your post was damn insensitive, inhumane and grossly negligent. And your feelings toward the person you purchased him from should have absolutely no bearing on how you develop compassion and understanding for the animal. It’s always something or someone else’s fault with you.
Say what you want. I hunt, so do many here. I do not feel that animals should be on the same level as humans. God knows humans corrupt everything they touch. But animals deserve an amount of respect and compassion, especially in captivity. They are at the mercy of their keepers.
Knowing repticzone very very well, I’ll assume your research information came from Doug or Deb? Yet they have no clue who you are. Reading isn't always the right kind of research.
Not only do I highly doubt he was wild caught, and that your research was less than adequate due to the preparation time, I wonder why OUT OF THE BLUE, you would suddenly announce that he died in such a callus way. Very similar to the same callus way you announced you didn’t want Rex anymore because you couldn’t bond with him and he was no fun. Kind of cold, heartless, “it’s just a stupid animal” kinda way.
Each and everyone here has spent time learning, observing and sharing information. We truly care for these animals and their well being. That doesn’t mean I want to eat crickets and greens, and I don’t want my animals to eat steak and lobster, but I do want to see them survive, thrive and live in peace if they must be caged, and I do mourn for them when they go. Seriously, you don’t think I’m the only one that feels this way do you? I’m just the only one that speaks.
Say what you want. I hunt, so do many here. I do not feel that animals should be on the same level as humans. God knows humans corrupt everything they touch. But animals deserve an amount of respect and compassion, especially in captivity. They are at the mercy of their keepers.
Knowing repticzone very very well, I’ll assume your research information came from Doug or Deb? Yet they have no clue who you are. Reading isn't always the right kind of research.
Not only do I highly doubt he was wild caught, and that your research was less than adequate due to the preparation time, I wonder why OUT OF THE BLUE, you would suddenly announce that he died in such a callus way. Very similar to the same callus way you announced you didn’t want Rex anymore because you couldn’t bond with him and he was no fun. Kind of cold, heartless, “it’s just a stupid animal” kinda way.
Each and everyone here has spent time learning, observing and sharing information. We truly care for these animals and their well being. That doesn’t mean I want to eat crickets and greens, and I don’t want my animals to eat steak and lobster, but I do want to see them survive, thrive and live in peace if they must be caged, and I do mourn for them when they go. Seriously, you don’t think I’m the only one that feels this way do you? I’m just the only one that speaks.
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You suspected he was wild caught? Why didn't you take him to a vet then? Majority of the time wild caught animals have some serious issues going on and his refusal to calm down and be "tamed" would set off the warning lights to me at least that something was wrong. Many times these animals get aggressive while feeling ill which could have been why he was never nice.
BL17 -Towards the end I started to think he might be wild caught because he wasn't showing any sign of taming. But I wasn't sure because sometimes animals have longer times to get over relo stress and other factors.
Ladynite perhaps I shouldn't have vented my frustrations associated with dragon keeping in the past, and I most definitely got impatient/ had slightly unrealistic expectations at times, but I pulled through that. I love my dragons very much and don't look at them as "dumb animals". I think you still have alot of assumptions regarding me that are inaccurate. The uro had just as nice a setup as Tink or Rex and just because I didn't contact anybody on repticzone does not mean I didn't read the multitude of posts on the site, which I did. Doubt what you will, you are entitled to that. I simply should have left out the condolences line which really seems to be what is bothering people the most. Yes I was mad, I payed a rehoming fee, I bought all the setup to include a 40 dollar light, kept him fed, cleaned his cage, attempted to socialize him, and it all came to naught, without even the slightest sign of a health problem. At this point in his socializing he would defensively roll his body if I so much as put my hand in to feed him, and trying to hold him was hairy because he would always try to jump. Nothing inhumane was ever perpetrated against him. Other than not getting attached to him, what is it that I did wrong here? I think the main difference between us is that I don't get attached to an animal if it has a not so nice disposition and you are a more compassionate person and can get around that. Yes I wasn't nice in the way I announced Haj's death, but I most surely gave 100 percent effort in trying to give him the best opportunity to thrive and prosper, my attitude may indicate otherwise in your opinion but my statement still stands.
Ladynite perhaps I shouldn't have vented my frustrations associated with dragon keeping in the past, and I most definitely got impatient/ had slightly unrealistic expectations at times, but I pulled through that. I love my dragons very much and don't look at them as "dumb animals". I think you still have alot of assumptions regarding me that are inaccurate. The uro had just as nice a setup as Tink or Rex and just because I didn't contact anybody on repticzone does not mean I didn't read the multitude of posts on the site, which I did. Doubt what you will, you are entitled to that. I simply should have left out the condolences line which really seems to be what is bothering people the most. Yes I was mad, I payed a rehoming fee, I bought all the setup to include a 40 dollar light, kept him fed, cleaned his cage, attempted to socialize him, and it all came to naught, without even the slightest sign of a health problem. At this point in his socializing he would defensively roll his body if I so much as put my hand in to feed him, and trying to hold him was hairy because he would always try to jump. Nothing inhumane was ever perpetrated against him. Other than not getting attached to him, what is it that I did wrong here? I think the main difference between us is that I don't get attached to an animal if it has a not so nice disposition and you are a more compassionate person and can get around that. Yes I wasn't nice in the way I announced Haj's death, but I most surely gave 100 percent effort in trying to give him the best opportunity to thrive and prosper, my attitude may indicate otherwise in your opinion but my statement still stands.
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Even though you say you wont miss him, I'm still going to say sorry for your loss of Haji. Because even though he may have been irritable during the time he was alive, I am still sorry we never got to see the beautiful animal he could become, and that we will never know if he would've become a sweet and loving pet (or as much as a uro can be) So goodbye Haji.
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Wait back it up a little bit here,
First I feel bad for your lost, even though you may not. That is a life gone from this world due to it being taken out of what is natural. I'll leave the ethical/moral stance at that.
Now
Granted I have no experience in Uros and I accept that I never will. BUT, i like to inform myself in all things reptilian and I find Uros particularly interesting and stunning.
In all my research I have found that the general concensus was that Uros are not amendable to handling (exceptions to the rules always applies). I would akin their "handlability" to varanids.
So correct me if I'm wrong (and this goes for everybody), handling a Uro and forced "socialisation" creates undue stress. Stress = compromised immune systems and functions. Compromised immune system and functions due to stress = unnecessary death at the hands of a keeper.
Going back to the BDs I remember you talking about re-homing the one you got from Bri after 3 weeks in your care cause a juvie would not behave the way you expected it to. I really think you need to manage your expectations of reptiles a bit more realistically. If you want something to hold, cuddle and reciprocate your affections, mate your looking at the wrong phylum of the animal kingdom. Research in reptiles doesn't just mean caging needs, thorough research encompasses behaviour as well.
First I feel bad for your lost, even though you may not. That is a life gone from this world due to it being taken out of what is natural. I'll leave the ethical/moral stance at that.
Now
Granted I have no experience in Uros and I accept that I never will. BUT, i like to inform myself in all things reptilian and I find Uros particularly interesting and stunning.
In all my research I have found that the general concensus was that Uros are not amendable to handling (exceptions to the rules always applies). I would akin their "handlability" to varanids.
So correct me if I'm wrong (and this goes for everybody), handling a Uro and forced "socialisation" creates undue stress. Stress = compromised immune systems and functions. Compromised immune system and functions due to stress = unnecessary death at the hands of a keeper.
Going back to the BDs I remember you talking about re-homing the one you got from Bri after 3 weeks in your care cause a juvie would not behave the way you expected it to. I really think you need to manage your expectations of reptiles a bit more realistically. If you want something to hold, cuddle and reciprocate your affections, mate your looking at the wrong phylum of the animal kingdom. Research in reptiles doesn't just mean caging needs, thorough research encompasses behaviour as well.
You make a good point. And yes through my experiences I have realized that I can't expect reptiles to be docile etc. I do feel bad if my attempts to socialize my uro negatively affected his health. I was told by the breeder that uro's enjoyed attention and were much like beardies. Such was not the case with this individual it seems. Since rex and tink are doing well i think i will resist any urge to take in other species of reptile for the time being and stick to the two individuals i am having success with.
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sweet little guy you have there i have a cpl too looking for a fem to hook up with them. The wife named them Fred and Barney
