Coccidia Treatment in NZ

[Polly]

In December last year, my dragon Sid had a fecal examination and was diagnosed with both pinworms and medium to high case of coccidia. My vet prescribed a de-worming medication for the pinworms which I gave him (as directed) for 3 days. But she told me there is no medication available for coccidia in New Zealand. I've looked it up and it sounds like the medications aren't actually so great for them anyway and I might be better off just keeping his enclosure super clean and giving him probiotics (Acidophiliz+ is what I've seen recommended) but unfortunately I haven't been able to get that here either..

My question here is, does anyone know where I can get anything that might help in New Zealand? Or does anyone have any suggestions of other things I can do to help with it or any readily-available products I might be able to use that I'm more likely to find in lil' old NZ?

(am getting another fecal done tomorrow and will get results next week to see if he is rid of pinworms)

If anyone can help with this, that would be hugely appreciated!

 

[Mungi's Buddha]

Our Mungi had a severe coccidia outbreak a few months ago and in fact we came very close to losing him. We went through the vet meds which did not fix the issue and in fact drug his system down further. Mind you that Mungi is going on 3 years old and before he got sick was over 500 grams. When the outbreak hit he dropped to around 180 grams in a matter of a little over a month and had totally stopped eating slept most of the time. The rapid weight loss was what clued us to his illness because at first we thought he was just going into his brumation cycle.
He is now totally clear of the coccidia issue, perfectly healthy, energetic and has a voracious appetite again and currently just under 500 grams and gaining
What cured Mungi was a product called Reptaid. I don't know if you have access to it in NZ yet but I do know that it is available in Europe and several places in Asia so perhaps. You could order acquire it from some place close.
The website for it is
http://www.reptaid.com/index.html

This product is 100% natural and was originally developed specifically to combat coccidia outbreaks but I can tell you first hand that it will also cure URIs as well because while battling his coccidia outbreak Mungi also contracted a URI.
This product also has none of the harmful side effects of the medications the vets use such as Albon,Pancur,etc
I went through 2 ten day cycles with the Reptaid with a week between cycles and that is all it took to clear him. He started turning around and showing interest in food again after the first few days and was eating on his own again very shortly after. Before he was only surviving on our syringe feeding him.
I am not a sales rep nor do I receive any compensation for telling folks about this product. There are alot of garbage products on the market for reptiles but this one is pure gold and I believe every dragon keeper should keep it on hand.
If you can find a source to order it you will need to know your dragon's weight in grams. There are two strengths Regular for smaller dragons and XL for larger. The dosages are based on your dragons weight and very small dosages. The Regular strength bottle is 1oz but has 300 dosages in it and kept refrigerated is good for a year.
Now that Mungi is back healthy we give him a single dose the first 2 days each month just to further keep and boost his immune system.
BTW if you would like to see Mungi you can for free as we keep a live streaming webcam on him everyday from 7am-7pm eastern USA
Http://mungisworld.zapto.org

You can also use 100% Whole Soy Yogurt to replace the good gut flora or acidophilis.I would start with 0.25 ml and work up to 0.5 ml per day. Mungi loved the blueberry best but plain works too. Just make sure that it is 100% Whole Soy Yogurt becauce they can not have regular yoqurt because they can not process the milk/lactose in regular yogurt.
Hope this helps and hope your dragon gets well soon

 

[Polly]

Oh awesome, yeah I'll see if I can order it online maybe, just not sure about what happens with customs etc cause I believe it contains fruit products... the soy yogurt thing is good, I'll try giving him a wee but of that. It's not a severe case I don't think, didn't notice much in terms of loss of appetite or rapid weight loss, it just came up in the fecal I had done. Got that done due to a couple of strange behaviours.. However this is the first time I've had one done so he could have had coccidia and/or pinworms since before I got him. He's about 3 and a half years old now and I've had him for almost 2 years. he's stayed about the same size/weight since I've had him but in comparison to your 3 year old he's pretty small and he's never been a massive eater, which makes me think he has been infected since before I got him. He's usually between 360 and 375g but in the last month (after worm treatment) has gained a bit of weight and is now 385g. I've never been able to get a proper answer on about how much he should weigh, but if Mungi is 500g then Sid seems ridiculously tiny for his age...

Thanks heaps for your help! Glad Mungi recovered well

 

[Mungi's Buddha]

Always happy to help when possible
If you can order the Reptaid you will want to get the Reptaid XL for the size your dragon is.
Also I meant to mention that when you start using the soy yogurt to get the good gut flora growing again in your dragon it is best that you give it to them in the evening about an hour before lights out and keep his night time temperature in his enclosure between 80-82 degrees Fahrenheit.
Normally you would want their night temp to drop lower for sounder sleep for him but you have to keep his temp up between 80-82 to encourage the beneficial flora in the soy yogurt to grow and it will do so while he sleeps.
Enjoy your day!

 

[Polly]

Okay awesome, yeah I've emailed the reptaid guy and he said there's been no trouble with customs to any other country, so will order some of that to have on hand and try the yogurt in the mean time
Keeping his temps up at night means another heat lamp though I suppose... -sigh- haha, oh well, gotta be done!
Thanks again!

 

[Germ]

Do not use a heat lamp at night, they will bother most BDs sleep. The use of a CHE (Ceramic Heat Emitter - Heat with no light emitted) on an inline dimmer or a thermostat should be used when night heat is absolutely necessary.

A CHE just screws into a regular sized socket, be sure that the socket is porcelain or ceramic, not plastic.

 

[Polly]

Do not use a heat lamp at night, they will bother most BDs sleep. The use of a CHE (Ceramic Heat Emitter - Heat with no light emitted) on an inline dimmer or a thermostat should be used when night heat is absolutely necessary.

A CHE just screws into a regular sized socket, be sure that the socket is porcelain or ceramic, not plastic.

Oh yeah, that's what I meant by a heat lamp, I know not to use lights at night Thanks!

 

[gilliesexotics]

Ponazuril or toltrazuril should be available for your vet to order.

Pinworm: Your vets recommendation of three treatments in a row will not take of the problem. You will need to give the three doses and then in 14 days give another 3 rounds and then in another 14 days another 3 rounds.

Coccidia treatment:
I would use nothing in the cage but a newspaper bottom. Your going to be cleaning like crazy, your dragon will be fine for the next month without his favorite rock . Ror cleaning use 40% peroxide or ammonia. This will kill coccidia within the cage but you also have to take caution of fumes and making sure the solutions dry and air out.. If you are using either drug i mentioned. A recommended regimen of 3 days in a row, 7 days off and then another 3 treatments, 7 days off and then 3 more treatments.

 

[Polly]

Ponazuril or toltrazuril should be available for your vet to order.

Pinworm: Your vets recommendation of three treatments in a row will not take of the problem. You will need to give the three doses and then in 14 days give another 3 rounds and then in another 14 days another 3 rounds.

Coccidia treatment:
I would use nothing in the cage but a newspaper bottom. Your going to be cleaning like crazy, your dragon will be fine for the next month without his favorite rock . Ror cleaning use 40% peroxide or ammonia. This will kill coccidia within the cage but you also have to take caution of fumes and making sure the solutions dry and air out.. If you are using either drug i mentioned. A recommended regimen of 3 days in a row, 7 days off and then another 3 treatments, 7 days off and then 3 more treatments.

Oh okay, well it's probably worth doing the whole set of treatments before I get another fecal exam done I guess? The treatment I gave him finished a month ago, but still have a heap of the medicine (panacur) left, would you suggest just doing 2 more or start over and do the whole 3 sets of 3 days from now? I'll talk to my vet about whether she has access to either of those coccidia drugs but if they're specific to reptiles it's likely they aren't available here. I got a solution from my vet for sterilizing the cage, I'm not sure what it is, tri-something I think. but they said it's pretty strong but also safe for animals. I have cleaned everything in his enclosure including all logs and rocks, he has astroturf on the bottom which I vacuumed sprayed and washed but have replaced everything back in his cage. Do you know how coccidia is spread etc? He doesn't really ever poo in his cage so that makes cleaning a bit easier but if it's through food or anything then I can take special caution with that.

 

[gilliesexotics]

Hi, If it has been a month since your last treatment. I would venture to say your going to have to start all over.

Coccidia is often spread from insanitary living conditions, poor nutrition and stress. It can be transferred through his food too. If you suspect this, have yours tested. It can be done VIA a Fecal float. The reasons it is rampid and re-contamination is so easily done is a dragon typically defecates and they then will drag there vent around the cage. If the feces is not removed immediately the feces gets stepped in and then dragged through the cage from the feet or even the belly and tail. Keeping a terrestrial reptiles area clean is vital.

 

[Polly]

Hi, If it has been a month since your last treatment. I would venture to say your going to have to start all over.

Coccidia is often spread from insanitary living conditions, poor nutrition and stress. It can be transferred through his food too. If you suspect this, have yours tested. It can be done VIA a Fecal float. The reasons it is rampid and re-contamination is so easily done is a dragon typically defecates and they then will drag there vent around the cage. If the feces is not removed immediately the feces gets stepped in and then dragged through the cage from the feet or even the belly and tail. Keeping a terrestrial reptiles area clean is vital.

Okay cool, yeah well as I said, he very rarely poos in his cage, only outside or in a bath, and when he does I clean it up straight away. I keep his enclosure very clean and although he chooses not to eat all that much, I provide him with a good diet. I suspect he has had the virus since before I got him. What is a fecal float, though?

 

[Mungi's Buddha]

Coccidia is actually not a virus but instead a microscopic parasite that lives in the digestive tract of bearded dragons and many other reptiles. Dragons carry these parasites in low levels naturally and a healthy dragon's system will naturally keep the coccidia levels under control on its on. The issue with coccidia is only an issue when their levels go out of control which can be brought about by many circumstances and conditions such as those which gilliesexotics has already mentioned. Stress on the creature is probably the leading cause. One of the first things that a stressed creature does is to back off of food which in turn will begin to lower the creatures natural immune system in turn making it more susceptable to parasite outbreaks.
That is a very basic explanation of what you are dealing with.
Earlier you had mentioned that your vet said that the coccidia level in your dragon was a little high. It is not uncommon for levels to raise mildly or temporarily if your dragon gets stressed and it is not an automatic sign that a slight raise in coccidia means that the creature should immediately be placed on a harsh schedule of meds that can possibly do more harm to the creature than good. What you need to know from your vet is whether the level of coccidia is just a little elevated or is it a massive outbreak.
BTW a fecal float is simply the test that a vet runs where they take a sample of your dragon's feces to test. The feces is mixed with a liquid or floated on a slide which is then looked at under a high power microscope so the vet can see and determine what parasites if any are present and at what level. Again that is a basic explanation. Fecal Float is just a fancy way to say have the vet test your dragon's poo
If it were me and been a month I would never recommend starting over any treatment of prescribed vet meds without first having your vet recheck your dragon because there is a possiblity that your dragon's condition or the conditions he was being treated for have drastically changed.
I recommended you getting the Reptaid and trying that as a safe alternative that would not do any harm to your dragon and that I and many others have had excellent results with when used instead of the vet meds which have many potentially harmful side effects.
You will still need to have your vet do a fecal float so that you know exactly what you are dealing with and follow up fecal check done after using it to make sure things are back under control and that the coccidia levels in your dragon are in the acceptable range and that his immune system is back to keeping them in check.
Coccidia is not a parasite that you are going to completely eliminate no matter how good your husbandry practice, diet and care for your dragon is. The trick is to try your best to help your dragon stay healthy and kept in an environment which lowers the possibility of a major outbreak. Also be aware that as your dragon gets older the chances of coccidia issues increases. Dragons over two years old have increased instances of issues with them. Speak to your vet about this and I am sure he/she will verify this for you.
Again proper housing, husbandry,diet and nutrition as well as reducing stress factors for your dragon thereby making him stronger will help him naturally battle and keep things in check on his own. The Reptaid will also help keep his immune system boosted and strong.
Again I am not a sales rep nor do I get anything for promoting the Reptaid other than the satisfaction of passing on a safer way of dealing with health issues which work without having to introduce harsh chemicals into a creature which may not be necessary and which wreak further havoc on the system of a creature that is already stressed.
There are instances where medications prescribed are necessary but my personal opinion is that they are oft times jumped for too quickly without first researching and seeing if there are safer and natural means to try first and which are just as effective or moreso in taking care of the problem whether it be in humans or the creatures we take care of.
Either way you decide to go do have your vet recheck your dragon and do another fecal float so that you know exactly in detail what your dragon's current condition is before you do anything like start readminstering the drugs they prescribed before.
Again..just my views.
Enjoy

 

[Polly]

Coccidia is actually not a virus but instead a microscopic parasite that lives in the digestive tract of bearded dragons and many other reptiles. Dragons carry these parasites in low levels naturally and a healthy dragon's system will naturally keep the coccidia levels under control on its on. The issue with coccidia is only an issue when their levels go out of control which can be brought about by many circumstances and conditions such as those which gilliesexotics has already mentioned. Stress on the creature is probably the leading cause. One of the first things that a stressed creature does is to back off of food which in turn will begin to lower the creatures natural immune system in turn making it more susceptable to parasite outbreaks.
That is a very basic explanation of what you are dealing with.
Earlier you had mentioned that your vet said that the coccidia level in your dragon was a little high. It is not uncommon for levels to raise mildly or temporarily if your dragon gets stressed and it is not an automatic sign that a slight raise in coccidia means that the creature should immediately be placed on a harsh schedule of meds that can possibly do more harm to the creature than good. What you need to know from your vet is whether the level of coccidia is just a little elevated or is it a massive outbreak.
BTW a fecal float is simply the test that a vet runs where they take a sample of your dragon's feces to test. The feces is mixed with a liquid or floated on a slide which is then looked at under a high power microscope so the vet can see and determine what parasites if any are present and at what level. Again that is a basic explanation. Fecal Float is just a fancy way to say have the vet test your dragon's poo
If it were me and been a month I would never recommend starting over any treatment of prescribed vet meds without first having your vet recheck your dragon because there is a possiblity that your dragon's condition or the conditions he was being treated for have drastically changed.
I recommended you getting the Reptaid and trying that as a safe alternative that would not do any harm to your dragon and that I and many others have had excellent results with when used instead of the vet meds which have many potentially harmful side effects.
You will still need to have your vet do a fecal float so that you know exactly what you are dealing with and follow up fecal check done after using it to make sure things are back under control and that the coccidia levels in your dragon are in the acceptable range and that his immune system is back to keeping them in check.
Coccidia is not a parasite that you are going to completely eliminate no matter how good your husbandry practice, diet and care for your dragon is. The trick is to try your best to help your dragon stay healthy and kept in an environment which lowers the possibility of a major outbreak. Also be aware that as your dragon gets older the chances of coccidia issues increases. Dragons over two years old have increased instances of issues with them. Speak to your vet about this and I am sure he/she will verify this for you.
Again proper housing, husbandry,diet and nutrition as well as reducing stress factors for your dragon thereby making him stronger will help him naturally battle and keep things in check on his own. The Reptaid will also help keep his immune system boosted and strong.
Again I am not a sales rep nor do I get anything for promoting the Reptaid other than the satisfaction of passing on a safer way of dealing with health issues which work without having to introduce harsh chemicals into a creature which may not be necessary and which wreak further havoc on the system of a creature that is already stressed.
There are instances where medications prescribed are necessary but my personal opinion is that they are oft times jumped for too quickly without first researching and seeing if there are safer and natural means to try first and which are just as effective or moreso in taking care of the problem whether it be in humans or the creatures we take care of.
Either way you decide to go do have your vet recheck your dragon and do another fecal float so that you know exactly in detail what your dragon's current condition is before you do anything like start readminstering the drugs they prescribed before.
Again..just my views.
Enjoy

Cheers Mungi! That's awesome to know. I am definitely working on getting some reptaid as I've heard/read nothing but good things, but unfortunately way over here, it's going to take a little while, so might just use your suggestion of soy yogurt for the mean time. The parasite report had coccidia at "Moderate to heavy numbers" so I figure this is something that needs to be dealt with. And his pinworm count is 1100 eggs per gram which sounds like a lot, correct me if I'm wrong, so I doubt one treatment would have gotten rid of them, plus his appetite hasn't increased or anything. I've started further treatment already...

 

[gilliesexotics]

And his pinworm count is 1100 eggs per gram which sounds like a lot, correct me if I'm wrong, so I doubt one treatment would have gotten rid of them, plus his appetite hasn't increased or anything. I've started further treatment already...

Pinworm: This is correct. You have gotten rid of the "adult" worms. The eggs they laid, will then hatch and need to be dealt with. This is the reason for the 14 days off I would like to know the drug prescribed by your vet. In general, most anti parasitic drugs available to combat these pest's are harmless.

Coccidia: High counts of coccidia are not welcome in any situation.

 

[Mungi's Buddha]

You are correct that it is possible and likely that one course of treatment might not have completely rid him of the pin worms. In all likelihood his Coccidia level was higher due to him having the pin worm issue. His body being dragged down by the worm issue would allow for the Coccidia to also begin to go out of control and once the pinworm issue is taken care of his coccidia level quite possibly may correct itself on it's own. That's the reason follow up fecal tests are necessary.

I hate to disagree with gilliesexotics on the statement of " In general, most anti parasitic drugs available to combat these pest's are harmless." but I certainly do and believe that most qualified reptile vets and specialists would agree with me in that they all carry risks in their use, many of which can be quite serious. For example and not limited to but risk of permanent damage to or even failure of the creatures kidneys which would cause death of the creature. That is specifically why I am sure that your vet checked Sid's hydration level and told you of the importance of keeping him well hydrated during treatment before handing you the prescription.

Need to also remember that when you treat with things like anti-parasitic medications prescribed by vets they are not truly selective meaning that along with the bad things those medications also wipe out the good things so while they are for instance wiping out the pinworm issue they are also wiping out the beneficial gut flora that he needs to digest. Hence the reason his appetite did not increase or return. He can't digest properly so why eat because food just makes him feel sicker, right? Using the Soy yogurt and raising his nite-time temps as I suggested will replace and encourage his gut flora to grow which will bring his appetite back.

Since you have already started further treatment just make sure that you also keep him extra well hydrated. When I have to result to those meds I personally give daily 20-25 minute warm soaks with the water temp matching basking temp. For instance I keep Mungi's Basking Spot at 105 degrees Fahrenheit so when doing soaks his bath is kept at 105 degrees Fahrenheit too. The daily soaks during treatment will reduce the risk of damage to his organs.

BTW,You may or may not be aware of this but bearded dragons actually have the ability to 'drink' water through their Vent. In the wild when they go into brumation they will burrow into moist burrows or ground specifically and while they are taking their "big snooze" moisture from the ground is drawn in or "drank" through their vent to keep them hydrated as they sleep. Their vent is a truly fascinating part of dragon design in my opinion When they soak in a warm tub they also do they same thing as well as water being absorbed through their skin.

Anyway, please keep us updated and I wish and hope only the best for Sid and hope he is feeling much better soon!

Enjoy the day!

 

[Polly]

Pinworm: This is correct. You have gotten rid of the "adult" worms. The eggs they laid, will then hatch and need to be dealt with. This is the reason for the 14 days off I would like to know the drug prescribed by your vet. In general, most anti parasitic drugs available to combat these pest's are harmless.

Coccidia: High counts of coccidia are not welcome in any situation.

Indeed they are not! Any drugs can always have side effects, and so wouldn't give them to him if I didn't think it necessary. The drug prescribed is Panacur. Thanks

 

[Polly]

You are correct that it is possible and likely that one course of treatment might not have completely rid him of the pin worms. In all likelihood his Coccidia level was higher due to him having the pin worm issue. His body being dragged down by the worm issue would allow for the Coccidia to also begin to go out of control and once the pinworm issue is taken care of his coccidia level quite possibly may correct itself on it's own. That's the reason follow up fecal tests are necessary.

I hate to disagree with gilliesexotics on the statement of " In general, most anti parasitic drugs available to combat these pest's are harmless." but I certainly do and believe that most qualified reptile vets and specialists would agree with me in that they all carry risks in their use, many of which can be quite serious. For example and not limited to but risk of permanent damage to or even failure of the creatures kidneys which would cause death of the creature. That is specifically why I am sure that your vet checked Sid's hydration level and told you of the importance of keeping him well hydrated during treatment before handing you the prescription.

Need to also remember that when you treat with things like anti-parasitic medications prescribed by vets they are not truly selective meaning that along with the bad things those medications also wipe out the good things so while they are for instance wiping out the pinworm issue they are also wiping out the beneficial gut flora that he needs to digest. Hence the reason his appetite did not increase or return. He can't digest properly so why eat because food just makes him feel sicker, right? Using the Soy yogurt and raising his nite-time temps as I suggested will replace and encourage his gut flora to grow which will bring his appetite back.

Since you have already started further treatment just make sure that you also keep him extra well hydrated. When I have to result to those meds I personally give daily 20-25 minute warm soaks with the water temp matching basking temp. For instance I keep Mungi's Basking Spot at 105 degrees Fahrenheit so when doing soaks his bath is kept at 105 degrees Fahrenheit too. The daily soaks during treatment will reduce the risk of damage to his organs.

BTW,You may or may not be aware of this but bearded dragons actually have the ability to 'drink' water through their Vent. In the wild when they go into brumation they will burrow into moist burrows or ground specifically and while they are taking their "big snooze" moisture from the ground is drawn in or "drank" through their vent to keep them hydrated as they sleep. Their vent is a truly fascinating part of dragon design in my opinion When they soak in a warm tub they also do they same thing as well as water being absorbed through their skin.

Anyway, please keep us updated and I wish and hope only the best for Sid and hope he is feeling much better soon!

Enjoy the day!

Yeah I did read that coccidia levels can be affected by pinworms, so will have him re-tested after the pinworm treatment before I do anything further for the coccidia (aside from the yogurt, which I assume is harmless?)
I don't think my vet would have tested his hydration level, she didn't mention anything about it, or keeping him hydrated during treatment, I give him baths/showers about 4 times a week anyway, but will make a point to keep him extra hydrated from now on. I also did read about the medication wiping out the good stuff too, which is where the yogurt/reptaid comes in right?
And no I didn't know about the magnificence of a Bearded Dragon's vent, haha, that's pretty cool And good to know that he's absorbing water in the bath even when he's not drinking!
I am a little worried about his stress level in the coming weeks though as I'm moving house. But he is keeping the same enclosure and everything so hopefully that will reduce stress levels in the move..

 

[gilliesexotics]

No harm in disagreeing

Need to also remember that when you treat with things like anti-parasitic medications prescribed by vets they are not truly selective meaning that along with the bad things those medications also wipe out the good things so while they are for instance wiping out the pinworm issue they are also wiping out the beneficial gut flora that he needs to digest. Hence the reason his appetite did not increase or return. He can't digest properly so why eat because food just makes him feel sicker, right? Using the Soy yogurt and raising his nite-time temps as I suggested will replace and encourage his gut flora to grow which will bring his appetite back.

"Most" Anti parasitic drugs wont cause gut flora "bacteria" to deplete nor does it target bacteria. An animal being ill (ex. having parasites), improper nutrition, on certain antibiotics, stress related issues, etc are some reasons why gut flora is hindered. At the moment i can only think of one anti parasitc drug used that may "possibly" target good bacteria is flagyl. Flagyl can also used as an antibiotic. Now, antibiotics do often times depending on the bacteria they are designed to target will kill both good and bad bacteria. I do agree it is important to replenish and help gut flora regain its vigor but we also have to look at what types of bacteria strains you are putting back into your animal. Reptiles do not have the same gut flora strains as mammals making many types of yogurts "including soy yogurt" used for humans useless to reptiles. They actually say a reptiles gut flora is close to that of a bird. A product like Nutribac or Benebac plus (for birds and reptiles) would be a more suitable choice when trying to re establish this.

If there has been a researched study done on reptile strains of beneficial gut bacteria to be the same as what they find in dairy or soy yogurt.. I would greatly appreciate any links.

http://www.anapsid.org/resources/rxdose.html
http://www.anapsid.org/resources/rxdose.html
http://www.mzrproducts.com/patent and abstract/patentandabstract.htm

Human yogurts often times have sugars which arent what you want if you are combating parasites.
http://healing.about.com/cs/uc_directory/a/uc_parasites_4.htm

 

[Mungi's Buddha]

When I mentioned your vet testing or checking your Sid's hydration level it is not a test per say as much as a visual inspection that she would have made. There are outward signs on a dragon that are indicators of dehydration and had she seen any I am sure she would have made comment.

I usually only do daily soaks when treating. Otherwise a 20-25 minute soak more than once per week is really not needed with a healthy adult dragon. Mungi at present averages about 3 soaks per month. That coupled with the moisture he gets from his daily "salad" and from his live feeders is more than enough to keep him hydrated and happy. The only other time I would suggest more frequent baths would be during a shed to help ease the discomfort and irritation of the shed process.

If you use the Soy yogurt like I was suggesting it will replace his good gut flora. Once his good gut flora is replaced and growing again in his body then he will feel better and will more than likely show more interest in food. The Reptaid will benefit him additionally in several ways by fighting off parasites and other infections such as URIs and boosting his immune system as well as giving him more energy and further stimulating his appetite. As it states on their site the ingredients that are in it have been specifically chosen to accomplish these things safely and effectively without the harmful side effects of traditional drugs.

Btw Panacur is probabaly one of the most common and "safest" drugs vets prescribe. This anti-parasitic is used for many creatures and been around for a long time. I've personally used it in different formulations for dogs, cats, reptiles and even horses,cattle, sheep and hogs of my own over the years. Point being it is one of the safer ones to use as long as the dosage is right and use instructions are followed.

It is however not without possible harmful side effects if misused or overdosed and even with correct use there are possible adverse effects when using it. There is a chance of kidney damage but usually only in dosages that are too high for the particular animal or if used for too many days in a row which is part of the reason why your vet prescribed it in the 3 day cycles. Another possible harmful side effect with it can be the possibility of impaction issues due to a mass kill off all at once of the parasites it is going after and it is also very common in reptiles (particularly bearded dragons) that Panacur causes them to go off food. Again it causing them to go off food is probably due to Panacur also further stressing them, disrupting or wiping out the gut flora as it is not specific per say to only killing pinworms.

This is not to worry you but only for information sake and to show that although it is considered one of the safest that it does have potential harmful effects and can not be termed harmless.

I appreciate the links of info provided by gilliesexotics and would agree Nutribac and Benebac can also be used as a probiotic with reptiles safely. Here are a couple of other interesting links on popular reptile safe probiotics too.
http://www.dynamichealth.com/pa/aliz.asp
http://www.petag.com/wp-content/upl...65 & 99563 Bene-Bac Bird Powder PDS small.pdf
http://www.mzrproducts.com/patent and abstract/patentandabstract.htm

Those links will give you the ingredients in 3 of the most popular probiotics used for reptiles.

Now if you will actually read the labels of 100% Soy yogurt and look at the ingredients as pertaining to the probiotic cultures contained in them you will find that they too contain at least the two most common bacteria cultures being L Acidophilus and Bifidobacterium Bifidum. Maybe not containing all of the different strains of flora as each of the reptile probiotics but then again the reptile ones each have their own variances too.

The soy yogurt delivers those probiotics in a non-dairy form just as do the reptile probiotics because bearded dragons can not tolerate dairy but to my knowledge have no issue with soybeans.

As far as the sugar concerns that gilliesexotics has raised in the soy yogurt again looking at the ingredient lists of the reptile probiotics I believe that they contain dextrose which is as well a sugar albeit a simple sugar that is more quickly absorbed into the bloodstream. If sugar were a true concern then I might also point out that there are non sweetened varieties of soy yogurt available which still contain the probiotic cultures while having no sugar at all. There are no non sweetened options in Bene Bac, NutriBac or Acidophilz+.

Probiotics are a controversial subject no doubt. Some believe them a total waste of time while others swear by them and their use as almost miraculous. I personally have witnessed nothing but positive results when using them with any of the animals I have ever owned or on myself and therefore recommend them when called for. And while soy yogurt may not be specifically labeled for reptiles I have been in situations where "reptile probiotics" where not available quickly and something was needed. Soy yogurt is a readily available product in most grocery stores. I have also discussed at length with my own personal reptile vet and she sees no issue with the use of soy yogurt either and uses it as a probiotic with many of the lizards that she personally owns and I have seen not just my own current dragon and Iguana go off food during drug treatments for illness or stress begin to eat again after only a few days of using the soy yogurt as well as other lizards of acquaintances do the same and too seen it first hand used by reptile specialist when I used to work with the zoo back down South.

So I have full confidence that it is both safe and a good thing available to dragon keepers to use.

On another note I will agree that gilliesexotics is correct in that "most " anti-parasitic medications are not proven to kill off flora but that too is a controversial subject at best as to which do and which don't in bearded dragons and it has always been my experience that when I have had a sick reptile and been prescribed medications whether antibiotic or anti-parasitic that a probiotic regime also be started because of the fact that there is always a chance that the gut flora will be taken out too as many of the drugs are non specific and all place further stress on the creature.

Enough said here on this subject as far as I am concerned. It is not my need, intent nor desire to get in any more link swapping jousts with anyone. I tired of playing "King of the Hill" many years ago. LOL

Instead my energies are better used to only offer what I believe and know to be sound help and safe suggestions in your situation with Sid based on my experiences and knowledge I have gained over most of my life having spent most of my life caring for not just bearded dragons and other reptiles but a wide variety of species both domestic and exotic as well as having had the benefit of a whole lot of true specialist at my disposal to learn from and advise me along the way.

Your upcoming move will certainly stress Sid out a bit because beardies stress sometimes by even small changes in their "normal" environment but I wouldn't be overly concerned especially since he is staying in his same enclosure and because these particular dragons never cease to amaze me with how resilient they are! I think the extra stress will be minimal at most and would just keep an extra close eye on him

Enjoy the day...it's there for you to do exactly that!!

 

[Polly]

Thank you guys so much for all this information, it has helped immensely, as there really aren't many reptile specialists here in New Zealand (none that I have found, but I'm sure they're out there), even the "reptile specialist" at my vet that Sid sees is only such because she used to keep dragons and turtles when she lived in the UK, but she always does research with me to help with Sid. But really, you guys probably know more than she does on a lot of this. Got some soy yogurt today and gave him his first lot today (0.25ml), had to syringe it into his mouth, which always annoys him, but he ate it like it wasn't so bad at the moment I can't afford to buy a new CHE but made sure he's sleeping right under his current one to keep him warmer over night.
I usually actually only give him a bath about once a week, and often he'll only stay in it for 5 or 10 minutes (usually until he does a poo) and then I take him out again. Otherwise (this is going to sound weird) I let him in the shower with me, haha, we have a massive shower and there's no door, so it's easy for me to avoid getting soap anywhere near him, and he loves hanging out in the warm rebound spray, and he can wander out whenever he wants.
Those links are great and I'll see if I can find bene bac or one of the others in any pet stores here. Bird stuff is generally more accessible than lizard stuff...
Will definitely let you know if any progress happens (forward or backwards...)

My day was great, and I will indeed enjoy my night Enjoy your day too!