cfls lights

[metrapper]

are they any good
u guys have a great site here this is my frist post here

 

[zebraflavencs]

Hi there... what is a cfls light ? I understand UVB, I understand Florescent, Incandescent... but ^ That ?

 

[Pogie]

Well if i had to guess . . .

CFLS . . . Compact Florescent Light Strip ???? LOL

 

[Pogie]

Found this.... Is this the one youre talking about?

About ENERGY STAR Light bulbs (CFLs)


CFL Bulbs

An ENERGY STAR qualified compact fluorescent light bulb (CFL) will save about $30 over its lifetime and pay for itself in about 6 months. It uses 75 percent less energy and lasts about 10 times longer than an incandescent bulb.

 

[staylor]

if it is that light...I use one on my cool side just to add light. They do not give off much heat so they are good for brightening up that viv but not as a heat source.

 

[metrapper]

ya thats the one

 

[staylor]

Sorry for got to welcome you...where are my manners today

If you are just wanting to brighten things up they are fine. Other then adding light they don't do anything for the beardies.

 

[renich]

Hi and welcome to the forum!

What are you wanting to do with the light? They don't offer any heat, which is needed on the hot side. Regular household bulbs work for that.

 

[Twobeardieguy]

The compacts are no good at all for beardies. Weather they are for UVB or heat. Hope this helps.

 

[renich]

Lance, I was wondering if the same rule applied to regular lights too. Thanks for the info!

 

[li]

Compact flourescent light are great to just use to brighten things up. They shouldn't be used for a heat supplement (since they give off very little heat) and they shouldn't be used in place of a uvb light. I used to use one on the cool end of my tank just to brighten things up a little since there was only the uvb down there, not any other kind of light for heat.

 

[metrapper]

thanks i was wondering if it puts out any uvb help

 

[pscaulkins]

thanks i was wondering if it puts out any uvb help

No they don't put out any UVB. I have one in Magick's tank just to add some more brightness.

 

[Ric]

There are some bulbs that you do not want to use at all.

The Reveal models by I think GE you should stay away from. Something about an odd light spectrum that can hurt their eyes.

Also I've read on a few boards of people reporting that the CFL's provide a flickering type light that we can't see but does affect reptiles. Sort of similar to the refresh rates of our TV. If the images flash to slow or fast we don't see them.

The best for basking I've read are basic halogen.

 

[staylor]

I do not use these for basking but I do use them on the cool side for extra light and have not had a problem yet. She does not seem to start moving around until I turn it on, this is the only light not on a timer so it is manually turn on/off everyday.

I think these light are going to be an item of debate like substrate.

 

[Ric]

I think these light are going to be an item of debate like substrate.

In some places these are the only type of bulbs available. They're doing away with incandescent by law in some parts.

 

[Fliehigh]

I actually started with CFL's for my Beardy (i didn't know any better).

There are some CFL bulbs that are supposidly made just for lizards and supposidly offer the proper UVB needed. What the companies don't tell you is that the UVB spikes very high in the begining and drops off very quickly. This is actually caused "photo-kerato-conjunctivitis" in my little one and I then Switched over to Tube lights.

If you are interested this site actually lists all the different types of bulbs and what happens over time with each and things you should look out for:

http://www.uvguide.co.uk/index.htm

BTW I am in Nova Scotia Canada and incandescents are not being sold as regular lights anymore so I use another Tube light as my regular light to brighten up the VIV.

Fliehigh

 

[li]

cfls should never be used in replace of a uvb light. A cfl can be used for light and that is it. It doesn't put off enough heat to be used for that. The problem is this....many people use regular household bulbs for heat...not uvb! Many places you can no longer get incadescent bulb you can only get the new cfl. When that occurs in your area, then unfortunately you will need to either or a stock online or start paying big money for reptile heat bulbs.

So not to be confused...cfl are for light only...no heat...no uvb.

 

[crypticdragons]

Note this is quoted from one of the contributers to uvguide.co.uk
Information found on another forum but it directly relates to this topic of conversation.

Hello, everyone.

I've been contacted by a member of Bearded Dragon.org who is rightly concerned that the general advice given here is giving people the impression that all compact lamps are somehow unsafe for bearded dragons.
Using the "search" tool, I've read several forum posts that certainly do give that impression.

Because of the problems, beginning in about 2007, associated with certain compact lamps - in the USA, just three brands, ZooMed Reptisun Compacts, R-Zilla Desert 50 Compacts (and more recently, Tropical 25 Compacts) and Big Apple Mystic Compacts (no longer sold) - a lot of people have become rather paranoid about them. There are now several websites where they seem to be advising people that NO compact lamps are safe!
But this is untrue - some are fine, and I use them myself in two of my small gecko set-ups.
Are they useful for lighting bearded dragon enclosures? Maybe not... but this isn't because they are "all unsafe". Please let me explain...

Some compact lamps, such as the Arcadia D3 7% and D3+ 10% Compact Reptile Lamps and the Lucky Reptile Compact UV Sun Lamps - all mainly available in Europe, have spectra which in the UVB region, are quite close to sunlight, with almost no very short-wavelength UVB and a steady increase in UV from about 295nm up to 315nm.
These are good lamps. You can get the Arcadia lamp from Drs Foster & Smith, in the USA, but I'm not sure if it's available from anywhere else.

The reasons I personally don't use these lamps which have more sun-like UVB spectra for my larger sun-basking lizards, including of course my beardies, or in large vivaria, have nothing to do with safety.

The UVB obtained from any good fluorescent lamp (tube or compact) is very weak compared to sunlight. At a reasonable basking distance, eg. 25 - 30cm (10" - 12") it rarely exceeds UV Index 1.0 with a brand new lamp. With many 5% tubes it does not even reach UV Index 0.4 - 0.5.
These levels are typical of the daytime UVB outdoors in the SHADE. This is very different from a UV Index of maybe 3.0 - 5.0 in full early morning sunlight anywhere in the world where reptiles are basking at the beginning of the day. To provide levels as high as that, you need a high quality mercury vapour lamp or metal halide over the basking area.

To my mind there are two ways of providing UVB to a reptile.
The first is the "shade method". You basically create a very large area in the vivarium (inhabited by the reptile for a considerable period of time each day - and including the basking area) with a UVB gradient that resembles UVB outdoors in the shade. (UV Index from zero to about 1.5 to 2.0)
I think this is probably ideal for crepuscular species or those which live in deep shade, and/or non-basking species. I think many sun-basking species such as bearded dragons can also survive quite successfully if they receive this low level of UVB over a large part of their body for long periods each day. I think it is also very wise to supplement occasionally with a vitamin or calcium powder containing vit D3, if using this method.
This sort of "background" UVB is most easily obtained by using long fluorescent tubes, extending halfway across an enclosure, from the warm end towards the cool end. These produce a large footprint of low-level UVB.

The second method is the "patch of sunlight" method. This involves supplying UVB with a steeper gradient, from zero to maybe UV Index 4.0 - 7.0, in the basking zone only. This mimics a beam of morning sunlight. It must of course be bigger than the reptile, so it can expose its whole body to heat, light and UVB all at once. But when not basking, the reptile then moves out of the gradient into shade which may have almost no UVB at all.
I think this method is more appropriate for sun-loving, basking species like bearded dragons, which thermoregulate by warming up in the morning then shuttling from sun to shade all day.
The "patch of sunlight" method requires a high-output UVB mercury vapour flood lamp or UVB-emitting metal halide over the basking spot. Basking temperatures must be adjusted using extra incandescent lamps if necessary, to keep the thermal gradient correct. Because you need a gradient from 100 - 110F under the lamp to 75 - 80F at the cool end, and this is vital for health, you can't use this method in a small tank. The whole thing gets too warm and the cool end loses its cool. I would estimate that it's very difficult to do this in anything smaller than 3ft wide, and you also need large ventilation panels to remove unwanted hot air.

Over a whole day, the total "dose" of UVB received by a reptile may be roughly similar with either method; i.e. a low dose for a long period, or a high dose for several short periods. I know of no scientific evidence for this; maybe someone could set up two vivaria, watch the lizards' basking behaviour and do the experiment, one day. (It would be a great project...) But in humans they use the same concept for UVB irradiation, i.e. dose = intensity x exposure time.

The reason I find compact lamps with "safer" spectra difficult to use in vivaria is because they are not ideal for either "shade" or "patch of sunlight" methods.
They produce a small zone of light with a steep UVB gradient - so unless you are illuminating a very small reptile in a very small vivarium, they do not provide a big enough zone for the "shade" method.
But the output is nowhere near high enough to create a "patch of sunlight" even if placed right next to the basking lamp. You are very unlikely to be able to produce a decent-sized basking zone with UV Index 3.0 or 4.0, for example, under a compact lamp with a safer spectrum.

Since no new test results have been published for some time, regarding the UVB output of compact lamps now on sale, here's a quick update on the current situation as far as I know it, with regard to the different brands of compact lamps. Please bear with me, as it's rather complicated.

In March this year, I tested two ExoTerra ReptiGlo 10.0 26W coils and these two are completely different to the version I tested in 2008.
The 2009 lamps even have a different shaped base (more like a cylinder than the cup-shape they had before) so they are probably made by a different company. The UVB output is much lower overall - making it one of the weaker 10.0 compact lamps available - but it still has a higher proportion of its output in the shorter wavelengths, so the spectrum is not what I consider optimal, although there is almost nothing below 290nm in this latest version.
Because of the very low output, these lamps are in my opinion extremely unlikely to cause eye problems if used at sensible distances (eg. 10 - 12 inches).
Here are some sample readings, all measured from the side of a bare lamp held vertically in a fixture with no reflector or dome, and no screen, at 12 inches distance:
Brand new lamp (30mins): 14 µW/cm² and UV Index 0.9
Lamp after 105 hrs (approx 10 days use): 13 µW/cm² and UV Index 0.7
Lamp after 750 hrs (approx 2.5 months use): 11 µW/cm² and UV Index 0.6
I have two of these on longterm testing right now and they will reach 1,000 hours (3 months) soon, so I hope to complete a proper report then.

ZooMed told me that stocks of their new version of the ZooMed Reptisun 5.0 and 10.0 Compact Lamps, with safer spectra with no non-terrestrial wavelengths of UVB, were replacing all the older style lamps in the USA from February 2009, and in Europe from April 2009. ZooMed said that from April 1st, all new stock shipped to anywhere in the world would have the new phosphors.
(I tested the prototypes in December 2008 and they looked good to me.)
But unfortunately, although I was supposed to receive samples of the actual production run (i.e. current stock) back in April, enquiries in June, July and even the beginning of this month have resulted in our UK distributor saying he doesn't think they have received any of the new type yet. So I can't confirm that the new phosphors are "out there" just yet, I'm afraid. But I have not heard of a single case of photo-kerato-conjunctivitis associated with a ZooMed Reptisun Compact in the USA for some time, so I suspect the new lamps are indeed on sale there.

The situation with the American company Zilla (formerly R-Zilla, formerly ESU) is even more complicated.
They, too, have reformulated their lamps. As folks in the USA may remember, they issued a voluntary recall on all Desert 50 Series lamps but never recalled any Tropical 25 lamps.
In late September 2008 I received a consignment of 20 lamps from most of the Desert 50 Series range, recently re-launched. Some had new phosphors, and those which did were much improved although one of the 20 lamps had another problem - a UVC leak. However, I am still receiving one or two (rare) reports of eye problems associated with the purchase of what might be old stock of the Desert 50 series... and several new reports of eye problems with the Tropical 25 series lamps - this is a new problem. I have been sent several lamps and these are apparently "old stock" Tropical 25s.. but some of these were purchased very recently - one only a couple of weeks ago, for example - from big chain stores (PetCo and PetLand) so I don't understand what's going on here.
Anyway... I sent a full report to Zilla about 2 weeks ago and I'm awaiting their response.

I have never been sent any samples, (old or new phosphors) of the Desert 50 Coil Lamps nor have I been sent any Tropical 25 lamps at all from Zilla (the only ones I have seen were those which had been associated with photo-kerato-conjunctivitis, sent by the owners). So I cannot comment on the Coil Lamps specifically; although all the new Desert 50 Series I tested appeared to have a very similar phosphor, so I'm assuming the Coil is the same.

I tested an ESU Super UV Coil 20W lamp in 2006 and it was emitting only 1µW/cm² when brand new.

Other UVB compact lamps from other parts of the world, which I have tested over the last couple of years are:
Namiba Terra Replux UV-Plus D3 UV Compact Lamp 8% UVB 23 watt. The spectrum and output was very similar to the Arcadia D3 Reptile Compact Lamp and Lucky Reptile Compact UV Sun Lamps mentioned above.

Ferplast Compact Lamp UV-B 10% 26 watt
ReptaPets Australia ReptaSun Plus 26W Spectrum 10.0
Repti Zoo Repti Sol Compact 10.0 26W
Big Apple Herpetological UVB Mystic Compact 18W (now withdrawn from sale)
These four all had significant amounts of non-terrestrial, short wavelength UVB and the Repti Zoo lamp also had a significant UVC leak.

There seem to be two basic problems with most UVB lamps (both tubes and compact lamps) manufactured cheaply in China.
Firstly, they appear to use a type of quartz glass that allows UVC and very short-wavelength UVB through it (unlike European glass, which I believe is very low-iron borosilicate) and also, when extruded into tubes, creates linear defects, like microscopic spurs inside the tube, which don't get covered evenly by the phosphor. There are therefore thin streaks of glass with no phosphor - you can just see them when you look at these tubes - and UVC can leak out through these streaks.

Secondly some of the phosphor blends they use, produce un-naturally short-wavelength UVB. This too escapes through the quartz glass.
The result is a lamp which can cause eye problems. It's not just cheaply-made Chinese compact lamps which can cause this. I have tested several brands of linear tubes with identical problems.

I hope this helps.

Best wishes,

FrancesFrances Baines
http://www.uvguide.co.uk

 

[beardielover17]

I read that recently Brian. I found it to be pretty interesting. Lately I have noticed a lot of people complaining about their bulbs lately (mainly the MVBs though). I had issues with 3 different MegaRays and finally decided not to use them anymore. The Powersun had issues from the beginning, T-rex Active UV had similar issues with their glass like MegaRay and the Solar Glo is giving off either too little UV or too much. I also heard they are changing who makes their bulbs to a place in China (all the above mentioned bulbs) and the quality has declined.