A history lesson

[Red Ink AUS]

G'day mates,

As you know there are no more "legal" ways of getting new bearded dragons into the states from Oz. My question is does anybody know how they came there in the first place, anybody ever look into that in depth or is it that it's just lost in history? Who was the first breeders of BDs over there and do you know, where they got their specimens from or for the breeders out there where your lines go back to? Is that something that people keep track of or do people just plain don't care?

Just curious

Cheers,

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

Ive got a couple poopers that I can trace back about 3 or 4 generations but after that it gets real fuzzy. You have sparked my curiosity tho about how it all started.

 

[Red Ink AUS]

Tom,

The ones you can trace back, how far back in years do they go a decade maybe? Since the CITES and the borders where closed in the mid-late 70s can't remember the exact date, I'm really looking into about a 40 year span in trying to peice together what info I can get from people. I think bearded dragons as pet became really popular only within the last 2 decades (correct me if I'm wrong guys). I am yet to speak to someone with over 20 years experience with BDs outside of OZ.

 

[zebraflavencs]

*Pulls up her rocking chair and get settled, waiting....*
Janie

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

I can only come up with about 10 yrs mate. I have only been into gragons for 6. Now I know Ladyknite has been in the hobby alot longer and can trace Her bloodlines back way farther than mine. I also know Janie has been doing this a bit but we dont talk age and time around Her she gets twitchy....lol

 

[zebraflavencs]

Tom and Frances, I have only been in the Dragon bit for a little under a year... I just tend to read A LOT ! and ask good questions !
Oh, and for the record... I am 45 going on 46 on ( mark this on the calendar everyone, I expect phone calls ) November 20, 2009.
Janie
Twitchy my Dragon butt ! HA !

 

[ladyknite]

Hey Mate
I can date back to the 80's with dragons, and back to before conception with reptiles in general. I have an original bloodline that was transferred here from Europe. I can actually date the bloodlines back 20.....to 21 years...........but that first set I have is rather vague and someone didn't keep very good notes.

I am aware of some facts of how dragons came to the US, but not aware who was the direct transporter.

 

[zebraflavencs]

*rocks gently watching, now that the news is out... *
J

 

[ladyknite]

That's news? I thought everbody knew that much about me.

 

[Red Ink AUS]

Thanks for that Ladyknite ,

Was the original line from Europe a german giant perhaps, a normal or some other kind of morph? You see GG thrown in by a lot of breeders out there as one of their crosses but is there still a lot of importation of this bloodline to the US. At least now we can say that one person has lines going back to the 80's which is really good as the borders closed in the 70's so that's just about 10-15 years off. The speculation here in OZ is that the GG lines are our top end "yellow" dragons as dragons from that locality seem to be our bigger phase averaging 22 inches. A mate of mine actually had a NT locality "yellow phase" that was 25 inches a few years back a real jem of a find.

The other speculation is that GGs are a P.vitticeps x P.barbata hybrids but i don't think that is the case as i have seen natural intergrades and they display more P.barbata characteristics than vitticeps and it was not that much bigger than the NT locality dragons.

Does anybody have a pic or know a link where i could see a "true GG" even an F1 or F2 possibly, like i said most people put GG in their crosses as it had it somewhere down the line but i don't know enough about dragon genetics to say for sure how long the characteristics hold true in lines to still be considered a GG.

Cheers,

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

Unfortunately there are ALOT of people over here that will put GG in thier lines just because a dragon is big.

 

[ladyknite]

The females below are from my originals. They are GG line. However, I will say that at this time, I cannot locate a male to fill the position for mating requirements.

All my dragons from the 80's time frame aren't on digital. But I do have these. The first two are offspring I produced from a female that I still own. The offspring was 24 3/4 inches long and weighed in empty at 730 grams. The third picture is her mother. A 26 inch 820 gram female. You'll note that neither have that pretty orange, red or bright yellow glow. But I'm all about the genetics. They do have a slight yellowish coloration, but nothing like what's produced by some.

Supposedly Crystal has an F2. But I don't know what validation was provided to her for that.

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

I always did like the big girls...lol

 

[Red Ink AUS]

Thanks ladyknite,

I think the pics shows a bit more confirmation of the general concensus the GGs are not a P.barbata x P.vitticeps hybrid (don't know where that speculation started from anyway) but rather are NT locality yellow phase dragons. Due to the lack of any ther visible morph mixtures in most of the true GG lines i have seen it would only logically lead to one conclusion but without a breeder from Germany saying they started the GG lines with proof of how they started it it would only be an assumption on our part.

My dragon is a yellow phase dragon but he comes from the South Australian Mallee region so his smaller than his yellow phase counter parts to the north. He's only around the 19 inches mark which is still not bad for a male dragon IMO.

Those dragons are stuning by the way.

Cheers,

P.S

I posted a short thread on naturally occuring BD morphs in the wild and their location on the BDC forum, do you guys think people on this forum would be interested in that? Should i post it here as well?

 

[zebraflavencs]

Share the Wealth, Frances ! Please ?
Janie

 

[Twobeardieguy]

;D

 

[Red Ink AUS]

No worries guys, I'll put it on a new thread.

Cheers,

 

[crypticdragons]

Ill have to pull a picture of Dr. Evil tonight for ya. He is 23 inches and 650grams. His mother was a German Giant (whose parents were imports "supposedly"). His father was a Citrus Hypo. He (from what i have been told) looks totally like a GG

 

[ladyknite]

My connection in Europe is family. They did not originate this line of Giants, but "acquired" it from OZ. Its those records that are somewhat vague and are missing what i feel is important information, such as locality and the condition of dragons upon captivity.

We've attempted to obtain P. Barbata for several years. We currently have 3 crosses (p. barbata x p. vitticeps) that tested at 54%, 71% and 81% for compatable barbata genetics. They have some outward appearance characteristics, but you must look closely at the 2 under the 80% to see defining traits.

 

[Red Ink AUS]

My connection in Europe is family. They did not originate this line of Giants, but "acquired" it from OZ. Its those records that are somewhat vague and are missing what i feel is important information, such as locality and the condition of dragons upon captivity.

We've attempted to obtain P. Barbata for several years. We currently have 3 crosses (p. barbata x p. vitticeps) that tested at 54%, 71% and 81% for compatable barbata genetics. They have some outward appearance characteristics, but you must look closely at the 2 under the 80% to see defining traits.

One thing i have noticed about the natural intergrade (occured in the wild where territory overlaps) that i have seen is the retainment of the lateral pronounced tuberous scaling on the base of the tail, it's a unique quality in p.barbata that is easily noticeable when you put the two species side by side. From what i have heard around there are P.barbata in the UK but that was a few years back now.

You wouldn't happen to have pics of the hybrids would you ladyknite? I would love to see them ;D

Cheers,