Why it is not recommended to use particle substrate

[Fliehigh]

first of I want to warn everybody the link in this post is VERY GRAPHIC and can be disturbing to some people.

I can accross this link when I was doing some research as to why Dragons shouldn't be housed on any type of particle substrate, whether the substrate is organic or not.

The link will take you to a page that has pictures of Dragons autopsy, where the dragon was housed on ground walnut shells.

Again this link is very graphic !!!

http://mrskingsbioweb.com/beardeddragngrossanatomy.htm

Please receonsider keeping beardies on particle substrates.

 

[Bill]

Great post

 

[Fliehigh]

Thanks

 

[Brett]

very good post.

 

[Fliehigh]

TY

 

[LittleMerlin]

Paper towels for babies, tiles for adults, that's what I keep seeing.

 

[jade]

Very old post but have just registared
i use oat bran smells fresh dosnt let the water from thee poo soak thru like sand does easy to clean and it digests if swallowed!

 

[117star]

I'm sticking with paper.......... thanx for the post.

 

[jade]

people stick with their gut instinct x

 

[117star]

The oats must be an English thing. I have never heard of it over here in the US. However a lot of the people on here from the UK use oats. Can you buy it in bulk at the pet store?

 

[drgnfly2265]

The oats must be an English thing. I have never heard of it over here in the US. However a lot of the people on here from the UK use oats. Can you buy it in bulk at the pet store?

I've never heard of anyone using oats either, that's interesting...

 

[Brett]

Ya the oats thing is new to me also but those from the UK seem to like it.

 

[jade]

if you go to a horse shop should be a big brown bag called oat bran its very good stuff

 

[DougT]

I've seen this before about calcisand. I changed to tile but my little freinds didn't seem to like it. So I switched to Zilla Ground English Wallnut shells and my little guys love to dig in it. My question is WHY would they market it as safe for beardies if in fact it isn't

 

[kaykayy]

My question is WHY would they market it as safe for beardies if in fact it isn't

pet shops are making money from u buying things like walnut shells, sand all loose substrates, u go into a pet shop and buy a beardie, they will tell u walnut shells r best because they dont give a cr*p about the beardies welfare they just want ur money n want to get it sold....and as sand and other loose substrates need changing, u will therefore go back to keep purchasing these substrates, where as if they told u the best substrate is textured ceramic tile, that u can buy from your local flooring shop....thats money they are losing out on, its all about them making money rather than caring about whats better for the reptiles...sad

 

[DougT]

the store I regular for my feeders and supplies specialize in reptilia and sell a lot of different substrates but no sand. they have been in my local area for years and refered a wonderfull Herp Vet,they use the walnut in they're store tanks but now I'm starting to worry. My little buddies are just a year old and packed full of enegy. My son whom I got my little friends from as month olds has his breeders in a tank with play sand for aprox 5 years with no ill affects

 

[Fliehigh]

Like any type of care for animals or even children, there are many ways to raise them.

what I have presented is the possibility that the risk is there that this "CAN" happen. Some people get lucky and go for years with no issue but in "MY OPINION" I won't risk the chance that my little may swollow the particle substrate.

Just an FYI on the crushed walnut shell. If swallowed it does have the potential of cutting the stomach and intestines as it has sharp edges.

 

[Germ]

Liked the original post & link. I like Graphic Pictures, not because I am morbid or anything, but it shows the effects & gets the point across sooooo much better ...

I have used Washed Playsand for many years. I am in no way stating that is what has to be used, just what is my choice for BDs >10"-12+" & in my opinion is the safest particle substrate, if not the only one I would recommend. I also use raised platforms in all my enclosures for my feeding dishes. I also feed roaches as my main staple diet, which I must feed in a separate feeding enclosure or hand feed, as they will very quickly burrow into the sand. Live treats other than the occasional Cricket feed, I generally hand feed.

In my opinion, with proper husbandry, a well hydrated BD will/should have no adverse effects, even if small amounts are ingested, they will pass right through. Washed Playsand falls apart when moistened as it would be in a well hydrated BDs digestive tract, does not clump like most other particle substrates, there is no binding agent. Now if you use Gravel, or coarse sand, impaction problems can & will arise if ingested, but that is not the Sand's fault, that's just plain 'Poor Husbandry!'.

I agree totally on the possible hazardous effects of Crushed Walnut shells. My favorite saying that I have seen, goes something like this:

Crushed walnut shell is dangerous and should only be used to clean up oil spills. This substrate is NOT digestable and if too much of it is eaten it will cause impaction. I have seen this occur first hand with reptiles ranging from lizards to tortoise. Stay away from this product please.

The problem I have with other 'Organic' substrates such as Bran, Millet, etc., is the problems of when moistened, can mold & harbor bacteria.

I have no wish to get into the 'Age Old' substrate debate. But Washed Playsand is my choice for my sub & adults. If it is too coarse out of the bag, it should be sifted. Some feel it should also be baked, but I never have.

I have also seen posted on several occasions on this forum, that sand should be changed monthly. If that was the case, I would not use it, as there is no way that I'm going to pack 500 lbs of sand up & then back down every month to my 4th floor apt, for all of my enclosures. I change it out every 6+ months or so, more if there is no odor, which there rarely is when spot cleaned daily. I understand the 'harbor Bacteria theory', but Bacteria generally needs a damp environment to thrive, Play sand dries out very quickly, absorbs nothing, it is tiny rocks. It is simply a personal preference issue & what you feel yourself as acceptable minimal risks. This is my choice & method that I have used for 10+ years without issue.

 

[Fliehigh]

In my opinion, with proper husbandry, a well hydrated BD will/should have no adverse effects, even if small amounts are ingested, they will pass right through. Washed Playsand falls apart when moistened as it would be in a well hydrated BDs digestive tract, does not clump like most other particle substrates, there is no binding agent. Now if you use Gravel, or course sand, impaction problems can & will arise if ingested, but that is not the Sand's fault, that's just plain 'Poor Husbandry!'.

Hey Germ

I think the main point is "with proper husbandry". Most new BD owners may not know the things they need to watch for or do when using washed play sand as a substrate. I do know a lot of experienced owners that use playsand with no issue, but they will also tell you it is a little more work and takes extra attention to changes in your dragon.

My goal (like yours with housing dragons together) is just to inform and hopfully get people to due more research when getting BD as a pet.

Thank you for your input on this.

 

[foma]

nice post.. wish some of the pics we in focus... but very educational