Struggling to find the right amount of wattage for my new enclosure (heat issues)

[Bushmaster11B]

New member here. My name is Jason and I'm building an enclosure from an antique half moon shaped cairo cabinet.

I'm not useing that light fixture BTW. I chose an adjustable (normal bulb) light rail with 3 angle adjustable light fixtures. This cabinet is about 4 foot tall if you knocked off the legs on the bottom. And it's about 2 feet wide. I plan on building 2 shelfs, one on each side about halfway up. These will be the basking areas. Since my enclosure is tall, my cool side will be the bottom and my hot side evidently will be on the two shelves. So on my light rail, the outside bulbs will be basking spot lights and the middle socket will hold the 10.0 Exo-tera compact UVB bulb. Under the two shelves I was thinking on placing another 10.0 UVB bulb to light up the bottom half and a night time basking red bulb. And please tell me if this is too much or what. I need to know. Oh, and the light fixtures on top are about 1 ft 6 inches from the basking platforms (shelves). I'm guessing this is close to a 50-55 gal enclosure. You can make a guess too.

So, This is the order of bulbs I have planned. TOP: 2 Day basking spotlights, 1 Compact UVB bulb for lighting. BOTTOM: 1 Red/ Night basking spotlight, 1 Compact UVB bulb for lighting. NOTE: the top lights are all connected together and are on a timer. The bottom two bulbs would be on separate individual timers as well.

My questions are,
1. What wattage for which bulbs for this size of enclosure? I can either go with 2 day basking, 2 UVB, 1 Night Basking...... or 2 Basking, 1 UVB and 1 Night Basking.
2.What type of venting can I use? How big do I use (inches if you will)? And where would you install it in this cabinet?
3. How far should the basking bulbs be from a basking area (with what wattage)?

I still have time to do this right before my baby beardie is delivered in July. He is hatching from a breeder the end of this month. I'm excited. Please know that all these bulbs will be either out of reach from the my bearded dragon or they will be caged off by hi temp plastic. There will not be anything in the way of the actual bulb "rays". I know a lot of screen tops usually block 30% UVB and 10-15% heat from bulbs. Not this cage, it will be open but unreachable by the dragon. So now it's a balance of power reaching UVB rays and basking rays and the heat inside this enclosure. So please, any help would be nice. Last but not least, it's a consistent 68 degrees F in my house at all times. So keep that in mind but also remember my enclosure is made of old oak. It may retain heat more but then again I don't know since the door is so big and the glass is single pane. I plan on using crete and animal friendly paint for the shelves, wall and floor after sculpting expanded foam. I am building the flooring and the basking shelves to support their own portions of calcium sand for better clean up as well.

Thank you for your support and I will post up pictures after everything is done. I may even do a DIY with pics for cabinet enclosures. And I bought my hatchling from Fire and Ice Dragons, the best 100% morphs in my opinion.

 

[Germ]

BDs are terrestrial creatures, somewhat arboreal for first year or so of their lives. A 4' tall enclosure is not suitable for them. They climb up well, but don't do so well coming down, either jumping or falling, posing a high injury risk. Floor area is much more important than height, very little floor space in that enclosure.

Also no night heat or light is needed or wanted, lights at night of ANY color will bother most BDs sleep. The only time night heat may be necessary, is if the ambient room temps drop below the mid to low 60s at night, if this is the case & you have stated that it is not, a CHE (Ceramic Heat Emitter) on an inline dimmer or thermostat, is what should be used to supplement the heat just enough to take the edge off. BDs should be allowed to cool down at night, slows the metabolism for a good night's rest.

 

[Bushmaster11B]

I'm still building this cage. Don't worry, I'm building it smart enough for a BD not to get injured. So I still need to know:
what wattage of each bulb do I use?
where should I install a thermostat and how many for what lights?
how hot should a cage be during night hours?
I'm going with ceramic heater for night, should I use them for day too? Remember my UVB bulb is in the middle.

Please help me out with this. I build a large 6 ft tall screened cage for a monitor once but the heating is way different in this enclosure. And I know several people in my past who have had tall enclosures. Sure there is risk, but any responsible owner would make sure their habitat was safe. Mine will be. So the issue is the lights and how much heat and how to get that heat (wattage of bulbs). So, help please. Thanks.

 

[Germ]

I'm still building this cage. Don't worry, I'm building it smart enough for a BD not to get injured. So I still need to know:
what wattage of each bulb do I use? We all have to play with different bulbs (Types, Wattages & Distances) for each of our own enclosures, because there are so many variables like ventilation, size of enclosure, distance to the Basking Spot, ambient room temps, to name a few. The is no one bulb suits all. I, personally have used ordinary Philips Halogen Flood bulbs for years as my heat bulbs in all of my enclosures. But you have an altogether different dilemma. You may have a difficult time getting your temps right with fixed lighting along with a fixed basking spot, with no way to adjust the distances between them to adjust the temp. Digital thermometers with sensor\probes should be mounted, one directly on\at the Basking site & another low near the floor. You want a basking temp in the vicinity of 110F for a baby\juvenile (95-105F for adults) with a heat gradient down to 80-85F at the coolest area of the enclosure.
where should I install a thermostat and how many for what lights? Thermostats are not recommended for daylight hours, as they will turn the bright heat bulbs ON\OFF throughout the day, confusing the BD. Remember that bright light is their visual 'Sun'.
how hot should a cage be during night hours? Temps can safely drop to the mid to low 60sF (Previous post)
I'm going with ceramic heater for night, should I use them for day too? No night heat is needed or wanted, (previous post), if your room temps are a consistent 68F as posted. Remember my UVB bulb is in the middle. By the way, please be sure that Repti-Glo 10.0 compact is the 26W & not the 13W, the 13W bulbs are quite weak.

My questions are,
1. What wattage for which bulbs for this size of enclosure? I can either go with 2 day basking, 2 UVB, 1 Night Basking...... or 2 Basking, 1 UVB and 1 Night Basking. As mentioned above, that is something that you are going to have to play with. One UVB bulb is all that is necessary.
2.What type of venting can I use? How big do I use (inches if you will)? And where would you install it in this cabinet? You can use any type of vent covering provided you screen them (examples below). I would think that you should get your heating set up first, because venting is going to affect how your heat is distributed & you may want to use this to your advantage if you can. If you have trouble getting the cool side hot enough in that tall enclosure without overheating the upper area, you could mount a computer fan, in the exhaust position, behind a circular vent low near the bottom that will draw the warm air down from a larger vent, say 6x9 or larger high at the top.
3. How far should the basking bulbs be from a basking area (with what wattage)? As mentioned above, that is something that you are going to have to play with. There is no set distance. You just have to be sure that there is no way that any part of your BD can come in contact with a bare bulb. There a quite a number of BDs out there, with shorter tails that will attest to this .

Hope some of this helps, here's some venting option examples

A few good links to help get you started ...

Basic BD Care Sheet - A Place To Start

Bearded Dragon --- Exclusive Care Info Library

Beautiful Dragons Nutrition Chart

Is Bearded Dragon Co-habitation a good plan?

How to sex a Bearded Dragon
How To Sex A Bearded Dragon

 

[Bushmaster11B]

Thanks Germ. I will build the enclosure first and test the lights before placing vents. Good tip about the computer fan to draw the heat down to the bottom. I will be using the highest 10.0 UVB bulb which I think is they 26W. I think they make a 30 something Watt too. I have already purchase an IR Thermometer to test surface areas. On the PCU fan idea, should I wire it to a thermostat? Or should it be running the whole time during the day? And should the ceramic heater be on a thermostat as well? I checked out the links you provided and noticed some enclosures that have the same type of lighting inside like what I'm doing. And I noticed none of the bulbs were protected. What would you do or build to protect your BD from a light bulb?

 

[Germ]

If the fan is needed, then hooking to a thermostat with the sensor placed on the bottom, would not be a bad idea. I'm unsure why you feel you need a CHE, you don't need night heat, your ambient room temps at night are well warm enough.

There are commercially available bulb protectors\guard cages that do the job quite well, but the distance still must be there anyway, because the cage can also get hot enough to harm your BD. So just keep a good safe distance & I wouldn't worry about the protector, unless for some reason that you must have to be closer, then it may help some. So to answer what I would do, I would allow enough distance between the basking spot & bulb to keep the BD safe.

 

[Bushmaster11B]

I'm going to go with 1 basking bulb up top. To start with I will use a 75w bulb for the basking. Then 2 UVB compact bulbs 13w each. The UVB bulbs will be split between the top and bottom so UVB will be present at all locations throughout daylight hours. I'm still getting the CH for night with a thermostat. It's freakin cold in my house, ok? If it's 90 degrees outside, I'm wearing a long sleeve shirt and sweetpants inside because of my Wife's problem with the AC being as low is it can go. The room air temp is around 60 F, the ambient room temp is about 65 F and the air that is comming out the vent pretty much 24/7 is 38 degrees F. I freeze my @$$ off, so I'm sure if I didn't have a night time heat source, my BD would suffer too. I plan on making the flooring and wall with crete. I know from my Military experience, you never wasnt to sleep on a concrete surface if the temp is lower than 70 degree F, or you will get sick. If concrete is below 50 degrees F, for humans, this is a fatal temperature..... as in you will die. That's why I'm concerned about a night source of heat. I could set it at 70 degrees and I think it would even improve over all well being and protection.

 

[Germ]

UVB is needed only at the basking spot along with the Heat bulb, where it should spend the majority of it's time, if the temps are set up right. UVB should not cover the entire enclosure, your BD should have an area to get out of the UVB should it feel the need, in the shade so to speak, generally the cool side on most enclosures, likely the bottom on the one you are trying to properly setup.

I will repeat,

By the way, please be sure that Repti-Glo 10.0 compact is the 26W & not the 13W, the 13W bulbs are quite weak.

when using compact UVBs, 25-26W (depending on the Brand) are what is needed, 13W is very weak. With a 10.0, 10% of the emitted light determines the strength of effective UVB, 10% of the light emitted from a 13W bulb is very little & will only be weakly effective for a few short inches from an unfiltered bulb. UVB bulbs have a very limited effective range, are not effective as far as the the light shines.

Then 2 UVB compact bulbs 13w each. The UVB bulbs will be split between the top and bottom so UVB will be present at all locations throughout daylight hours.

Having a CHE on a thermostat at night is a good plan, if you keep the AC that high (low ).

Last but not least, it's a consistent 68 degrees F in my house at all times. So keep that in mind but also remember my enclosure is made of old oak.

My earlier suggestions concerning the use or not, of a CHE at night, were based on the previous info that you provided above ...

It's freakin cold in my house, ok?

The room air temp is around 60 F, the ambient room temp is about 65 F and the air that is comming out the vent pretty much 24/7 is 38 degrees F. I freeze my @$$ off, so I'm sure if I didn't have a night time heat source, my BD would suffer too.

Your circumstances appear to have changed. When looking for help, we are not there, so we can only go by what you post. If the posted info is not reasonably accurate, the recommendations &\or advice may not be either.

Good Luck

 

[Bushmaster11B]

About the CHE and the temp... I didn't realize how cold it was until I bought a good laser thermometer and started testing the room and vents for coldness. I only was going to use the 2 13w UVB bulbs because I was going to have a bottom one for the lower level. Since I learned BD's only need a certain amount of UVB, I will go with the 25w one and put it at the top with the basking bulb. Oh, happy to tell you that I am not using any particle substrate either. I will probably stick with ceramic tile of some sort and/or some grouted foam that is carved and decorated.

My next question is the venting. How much venting and where do I start?

 

[Germ]

I would put a large vent, maybe 6x9 up high on the back or top and one or 2 smaller ones (Possibly circular vents) low near the floor.

With the Heat rising, this would provide natural circulation, drawing fresh air exchange from the lower vents, which you could reverse if needed, with an exhaust fan on the lower vent if you need to draw the hot air down, as previously discussed.

 

[Pat B]

That is a beautiful piece of furniture. Why would you want to use it for a beardie enclosure? IMHO it would be so much easier to use a 40 gal breeder tank.

 

[Bushmaster11B]

@ PAt B.... simple, money...... I fell into a bit of a payment situation from the Government (Retired Veteran), and I had the case that was doing nothing but collecting dust in storage. It is an antique cabinet from the 1940's. Not the best antique in quality so it will be ok to use. Plus, it was my Grandmothers' who is now deceased. So it's a way to incorporate the sentimental value of the cabinet into a functional piece of art with a pet that I have wanted for almost 10 years but never committed due to my role and absence as a Military Soldier. All I have to do is buy the supplies to finish the enclosure and the right type of bulbs. I would build a shorter and wider enclosure if I had time and money. Time meaning, my new BD will be delivered by the beginning of July by Fire and Ice Dragons in PA. He is already paid for and should be hatching soon.

@ Germ, going with the 6x9 up top and I think 2 3" inch vents will work on the bottom. 1 of the 3 inch vents will have a CPU fan with thermostat control to pull any needed heat down. When it's not on, it will serve at an intake re-circulation vent as you described. Does this sound good? I could run the CPU fan on the same CHE thermostat. That way the bottom will have a safe zone temp that will never drop below danger levels of temperature. And it can regulate itself.

 

[Germ]

Unless you have dual controls & sensors on the thermostat, I don't think that would work because you would need 2 different temp settings. The settings for the CHE to keep the ambient temps up at night should be set between 65-70F, to allow the BD to cool down at night for a good night's rest. The setting for the exhaust fan to keep the lower portion of the enclosure at cool side temps during Daylight hours, to provide the required heat gradient, should be set at 80-85F. Too much of a temp difference to try to run off of one thermostat.

 

[Bushmaster11B]

OK, sounds good Germ. I will use 2 thermostats. Thank you for all your help. It sure does give me and understanding on where to start on this build. I have decided to do a DIY on this enclosure, so I will be documenting everything with pictures. Where would I post an Enclosure DIY thread?

 

[Mungi's Buddha]

OK, sounds good Germ. I will use 2 thermostats. Thank you for all your help. It sure does give me and understanding on where to start on this build. I have decided to do a DIY on this enclosure, so I will be documenting everything with pictures. Where would I post an Enclosure DIY thread?

Start a new thread in the Bearded Dragon Enclosures section of the forum. Looking forward to seeing your build!

 

[Bushmaster11B]

Thanks, can't wait to build it. Going to try and make it as safe as possible due to height.