Starting to worry

[milo0]

Hello, well I'm new to this forum... I haven't had too much luck with other forums. Anyways, I have a 10 month old beardie who was doing great. Then back in December, the weather changed almost instantly and so did his behavior. He slept almost all day or rarely would leave his hide, and his appetite has decreased drastically. I figured it was some sort of "pre brumation" that they go through when the weather changes, but it's been almsot 2 months now. Before the change, he was very good about eating veggies daily but now, he rarely touches them. I've bought new veggies and greens, even fruit and still, he rarely eats anything. I feed him dubia roaches but even now, he rarely gets excited over them anymore. I got him to eat 3 raspberries, a couple bites of bell pepper, a few bites of collard greens, and about 8 1 inch roaches in the past 2 weeks, but that's it. I keep switching greens and veggies but he just doesn't eat them like before. He's also still pretty sleepy but he's not lethargic. He has his moments where he runs around, jumps, climbs, etc, and he looks fine. He's still pooping almost daily and the poop looks normal (he had blood in it for 2 days but I bumped up his temps and it stopped) so I don't think he's sick... But I'm worrying so much that'll he'll become sick if he doesn't start getting the nutrients he needs. Also, he hasn't really grown at all since this whole thing started, and has only shed a small portion of his body. He hasn't had a full shed in probably 3 months, and is only 15 inches long at 10 months.

Some info on husbandry:
-55 gallon breeder
-tiles
-2 150watt heat bulbs- Cool side: 85, warm side: 90-95, basking: 95-105
- reptisun 10.0 UVB
- Fed a mixture of greens, veggies, certain fruits as well as dubia's that are gut loaded with greens and veggies.


Any advice is needed... I hope it's just him and natural instincts with the weather but I just want to see him eat again.

 

[luissandoval87]

Hello. Welcome to the forum
I'm no expert and I'm sure someone else here can help you better...
A lot of it sounds like brumation. Also if he had blood in his stool, maybe you should visit a vet? It could be some kind of parasite. 15 inches is not too bad I've seen some that only grow up to that size. But I think it's pretty obvious if he's not eaten then he's not going to be growing and shedding. Also if he's active it's usually a good sign
Maybe you could put a picture of your husbandry and your beardie and I'm sure the experts here can help you out.
Hang in there I'm sure everything will be fine if you listen to these guys

 

[Lemonpie]

I think a vet visit or at least a stool analysis to rule out any parasites would be beneficial. Also, do you have your lights set on a timer? How many hours are your lights on? If you have a scale keeping track of his weight will also let you know if something major is going on. Right now my 6 mo old beardie slowed his eating down (likely due to the weather) so he only eats 10 roaches a day instead of his usual 45 but he is still gaining 15 grams per week and growing well.

 

[river-7]

Hi: Are sure that the blood is not the rasberries??And if not i would reccmmend a vet visit as well. hope this helps you a little Keep an eye on his poops and don't give any red fruits and see.Might be as simple as fruit that he ate.River-7

 

[river-7]

MiloO; some of my beardies are off their food now-1-feeding they eat and next they pick-maybe the weather effects us all and including beardies. I would watch him and see how it goe's but if your'e really concerned to the point of worry take him to the vet. But i'm sure he will eat when he's ready.river-7

 

[milo0]

Hi thank you guys for the input. I'll try to get a pic of later today of both him and his enclosure. The raspberries weren't the cause of red since i fed those after. I think it was because he ate a couple roaches the night before and he wasn't basking amywhere near enough so it was probably from strain. I added another 150W bulb and bathed and since then, no blood. I'm slightly against going to the vet because the one i take him to (pretty much the only one in my area) will prescribe medicine even for a low number/natural amount of parasites and i hate medicating him if it's not needed. plus he's already had two treatments months back after a bad go with petsmart crickets, so none of that ever again. If his poop changes, i will send in a sample but it doesn't smell (as in, not the deathly smell of parasites), it's well formed, etc.. not to mention i keep his enclosure almost spotless
As for timers, that is a slight problem. I'm not able to set one because pf multiple reasons so his lights go on at different times each day. however, he usually wakes and sleeps at the same time since he sleeps bundled in a blanket so the lights don't wake him up until he wakes from his sleep. I hope letting him oversleep or no time schedule isn't my problem ...

 

[river-7]

MiloO; Your baby should be on a 12-14 of uvb lights and 12-hours of sleep-Do you have a uvb tube light and if so what type??His temps should be measured during day light hours; Temps will deff; cause him problems, no eating, listless ect; He needs to be basking most of the day until he gets too hot then he will move to cool side of his tank.Wake him in the morning and let him warm up and then feed-I usually let warm up 2-hours and serve his salad and 1-hour after that they get their live dusted prey. All prey should be dusted, worms, crickets, roaches or what ever you feed you must dust. I kind of think he needs a regular schedule correct temps and he should be just fine.His schedule is the most important as to any animal-they need routine and very strict routine/.river-7

 

[milo0]

okay, i will definitely try to get that fixed. He gets about 12 hours of lights and sleep but getting him on a real schedule would probably be beneficial Also i have the reptisun 10.0 and I ordered a new bulb but the shipping got messed up. it's been 7 months since i replaced it so that might be a possibility to his not wanting to eat. Hopefully I'll get it in soon

 

[Germ]

BDs need a regular Day\Night schedule, on\off at the same time of the day, everyday, is an important & necessary part of BD husbandry for their continued health & wellbeing. Most of us have found 12on\12off to work the best. A timer is an invaluable tool in BD husbandry & can not for the life of me figure out any reasons why one could not be used.

Early Brumation has been mentioned, this is a possibility, triggered by the varying heat & light cycles not being consistent, throwing out or not coinciding with it's internal clock. Could also very well be part of the eating difference issues.

300W of heat in a 55 Gal enclosure sounds like serious overkill, unless you live in an igloo. Are you sure you are measuring your temps in the right spots with proper & accurate thermometers.

Example of a Basic Setup: Showing the recommended Basic requirements, proper Temperatures & the points at which they should be measured from, in Red & the optional choices that are actually used in this particular example enclosure, in Black.​

​

Good luck

 

[river-7]

Deff; that is why he's not eating they claim they should be replaced every 6-months so your's would not be putting out enough uvb; for him to absorb and digest his food-I wouldn't eat either. They claim that these tubes should last a year but don't believe it as they should be replaced every 6-months.When his new bulb comes watch the difference. You probably won't be able to keep enough food coming fast enough lol. Lets pray for fast postal service; Reptisun-10.0 is what is recommended. How is his basking area . What temps and size of tank. And where are you taking his temps and with what? river-7

 

[Germ]

If mounted above the screen, it is recommended to replace the UVB a minimum of every 6 months, because of the the screen blocking\reflecting\filtering the max effective range of the UVB. If it is mounted under the screen & the BD has access to it at it's basking spot of 8"-10" from the UVB bulb, generally the max recommended replacement time by the manufacturer can be achieved. There is absolutely nothing wrong with changing them sooner. Personally, all my enclosures have always enabled unfiltered access to their UVB source at an acceptable distance, I have always replaced my UVB bulbs yearly. In 11 years, I have kept many BDs, all the ones that I have rehomed are kept under the same care specs, all save one who passed quickly from yet unknown causes, are still happy & healthy in their respective homes. My first BD is just under 12 years old, is keeping my niece & is still quite healthy & happy ...

 

[milo0]

Regarding the light, he stopped basking normally once the cold weather kicked in and spent most days sleeping so I bumped up the temps so he would be warmer where he usually sits (on a rock below the basking spot) and it helped with the whole blood issue. Even now though, the temps aren't a whole lot different from what they were before, and I measure with a prob thermometer. I'll try to set the timer today, since I wasn't able to because of the outlet the lights were sharing with everything else. It would turn things off I needed and I wasn't really able to move them. I'll figure something out though.
I just ordered the bulb again from another vendor and hopefully this time, I'll actually get it in. I knew it was supposed to be replaced every 6 months, but the item was lost in shipping.

Here's a pic of the enclosure-

And Milo after waking up

I'm currently working on custom rocks/basking spot/hide made of foam and grout and all that so he has more things to do. It will be a while longer until it's ready, which is why his tank is a little bare, but the basking spot I'll make for him will bring him closer to the top so he'll be closer to the heat. The problem with the heat is 1. It's glass. 2. The height is very tall, so it's a lot harder to get it warm. Rookie mistake, I bought this cage for a really good deal and didn't even think glass would affect temperatures, but I'll make it work.

 

[Germ]

What are the dimensions of that enclosure? The majority of us use glass enclosures with the odd exceptions of custom built. If you setup so the hottest spot in the enclosure is at the appropriate temp for the age of BD, generally the area closest to the basking bulb that it has access to & this should be considered it's basking spot. It is our job to provide the proper options, it will find the temps it needs at any given time on it's own, no need to be changing the hot spots to where it sits.

 

[milo0]

dimensions are 36x18x24.

 

[Mungi's Buddha]

dimensions are 36x18x24.

That would actually be a 65 gallon tank instead of a 55 gallon tank and I would have to agree that even at 65 gallons unless you keep your home's ambient temperature very cold then 300 watts of heat is extreme. It's hard for me to tell from the picture you posted exactly how you are measuring your temps. It looks as though you are using a remote probe thermometer which is good but unless it is mounted correctly then your readings will be inaccurate.
I have a 55 gallon enclosure for one of our lizards (an young iguana) that requires a basking spot of 115 degrees Fahrenheit during the day and use a single 75 watt standard household indoor Halogen floodlight at one end of the tank to get it and it produces the 115 degree basking temps she needs and a cool side temp of a constant 80-85 degrees. That particular enclosure also has a mist fog system to maintain the humidity she needs which can cool things down. Point being the single 75 watt halogen puts out some significant heat as well as providing a clean bright white light which lizards are attracted to. We keep our home at around 72-74 degrees Fahrenheit year round.
I would think that with your enclosure a single 75 or 90 watt halogen flood would be more than sufficient.
Gonna reiterate what has already been said by Germ in that these creatures require basic and consistent day and night cycles for their lighting and without these set up and maintained properly it can cause stress as well as other health issues and inhibit your dragon from thriving. I don't really understand your reasoning for not being able to use a timer because they are inexpensive( usually 10-15 bucks) as well as plug into a simple outlet just like your lights do and in fact the same socket your lights do so therefore if you can plug in a light then you can plug in a timer. They are also very simple to program.
Edit..I missed your post where you said tht you were getting the timer. However if you are having issues with too many things plugged into your wall socket I understand. We have so many enclosures in our homes that our plug space comes at a premium too. I might suggest going and getting a multiplug extension(surge protector). You can pick up a 6 slot one for 6 bucks at Home Depot for instance. Plug that into your wall socket and then your lights and timer into that...problem solved and you will not be adding any more load on your outlet than you already have. You are just creating more space.
If you can post some better pics of your enclosure it would be helpful in helping you get your setup right. In particular a pic showing how your lights/heat is setup above your tank.

Enjoy!

 

[milo0]

I tried setting the timer but i have a multi outlet because he has 3 lights total. The timer I bought plugs into the wall but only allows one cord to connect, and the multi extension cord won't fit into it. I'll post a pic of both timer and light set up when i get home. I'll be going to the store this weekend so I'll pick up another timer if needed, unless I'm just misunderstanding how it works completely. Are there any you guys recommend? Good news is his uvb light should be in Thursday.

 

[Mungi's Buddha]

Plug your multi-outlet into the wall and plug your timer into the multi-plug. Then plug your lights into the timer.
I use timers very similar to the ones found here at Walmart. Each one will control two lights.

Digital timer(example) http://www.walmart.com/ip/Stanley-3...-Max-Digital-Indoor-Lamp-Timer-White/19592720
I also only recommend using digital timers. The old style push pin timers in my experience are just that..old and antiquated...and not as reliable.

I'm still curious at what lights you are using for your setup. You state you have two 150 watt heat lamps but not what type of bulb it is. Again better pics of your lighting set up would be more helpful.

Proper placement of your thermometer probe is as well as proper positioning of your lighting is absolutely crucial to getting things correct and in general a single basking light of sufficient wattage to get your basking spot temp correct along with a single proper UV light is all that is required.
Here is a simple diagram of proper light placement.

Should you need supplemental heat the best way to get that is with a CHE ceramic heat emitter which needs to be used with a thermostat for safety.
These can also be used at night in case the ambient enclosure temps drop below 65 degrees Fahrenheit because the produce heat with no light which would disturb your dragon's sleep. No night lighting is needed or wanted. Again CHE's should only be used with a thermostat.

CHE(example) http://www.reptiledirect.com/ceramicheatemitters.aspx

Thermostat(the ones I use personally) http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTP...78665&sr=8-3&keywords=thermostat+for+reptiles

All of this however is moot unless your thermometers are set up properly and you do need two digital probe thermometers to get your setup gradients correctly measured. Also some folks try and use infrared thermometer guns which will not work unless you have an enclosure setup that affords a clear unobstructed and undisturbed access to where you are trying to measure the temp. Shoot through glass or screen or having to move lights as well as in your enclosure having to open the front doors will change the environment and give you inaccurate reads.

Hope this is of help.
Enjoy

 

[milo0]

The light fixture is pictured below. Originally,his UVB light was right next to the one heat lamp ( he was small enough to get right where it hits 110 or so) but I had to move it back to fit. The light is able to reach 24 inches down though and he usually sits where he is in that picture or on his rock to the right under basking spot. I usually test his temps at night when I take him out so I can get an accurate reading without him messing with the position. I only have one ceramic dome capable of holding 150W, which is why I have that other one until I can get a new basking fixture made. Originally I had tried a smaller ceramic dome with a 60W but it just wasn't heating temps. Not to mention, he's unfortunately on the outside wall where it gets cold, and my room happens to be the coldest/hottest which is why I added those extra bulbs. My light just might be in tomorrow btw, so I hope to see something change with his appetite. I'm thinking of redoing the top screen to his enclosure because I fear that a lot of the heat/UVB light is being blocked by that screen, and I hate the little bars in the middle of it. Or i might just cut out part of the screen the he gets 100% effect of the light. Good idea you think?
Edit- Also, one of the bulbs is halogen and the other is just a regular bulb.
Now onto the timer... I've tried multiple times putting the timer directly into the outlet extension but it has no affect since, I'm guessing they HAVE to plug into the actual outlet to work. You can see there's only a spot for a single cord to connect to it and the extension cord doesn't fit in it, so I may have bought the wrong one... I thought I could just plug timre into the outlet, and the extension into the timer and everything would work. Is it not the right one or is there another way to do this?

 

[milo0]

I got my timer working! (hopefully). I found a cord that worked, so I guess I'll see if it does what it's supposed to do tonight and tomorrow.

 

[DudleyDragon]

Did you just use an extension cord with the correct fitting to it?