Sophie's mom

[alise]

Hi All,

I'm the "mom" of a rescue we named Sophie. We've had her for about six months now and I know she's at least three years old, though we're not entirely certain how old she is. She's a pretty sick little girl right now, won't even eat her worms, salads, or crickets but we have an idea of what's going on and the vet gave us some meds and food that seem to be helping a little. I've been looking for somewhere to connect with other beardie lovers and maybe learn more. I asked a lot of questions when we took her in and did a lot of research, but the more I learn the less sure I am of what I know.

Anyways, nice to find somewhere I can talk to others.

 

[li]

Hi and welcome. Sorry you are finding us at a time when things aren't going to so well. Would love to find out a bit more about how you are keeping your rescue. Can you answer these questions so we can see how things are going?

Husbandry Questions

1. Age
2. Length
3. Weight
4. Basking temps
5. Are they measures with a digital thermometer
6. What % and age uvb
7. What is the substrate
8. What size tank
9. How many/big are the crix you are feeding
10. What greens
11. Are you dusting w/ a multi vitamin and calcium
12. Last poop
13. Last soak
14. How long has he/she been in your home

Also...what the the vet say as to what is going on? What meds is she taking now?

 

[alise]

I'll answer as best I can.

1. Age : I'm estimating between 3 and five years. Shes' been in our house for a year and a half (my husbands little brother had her but he wouldn't take care of her and finally I just got fed up and kidnapped her. It was bad, he wouldn't clean her habitat, all he'd give her was kale, and at that he'd leave it for a couple of days, never turned off her heat lamp)
2. Length: she's a good four, five inches without tail.
3. Weight: umm..we just weighed her yesterday, doc said it was a good healthy weight but I don't remember what it was, hubby should, I'll ask when I get home.
4. Basking temps: According to her thermometer 95, but I dont' believe it.
5. Are they measures with a digital thermometer; stick on, but I'm picking up digitals when I get paid this week
6. What % and age uvb: it's a 100 wat sun beam light, she seems to love it. We change it every 2-3 months (they seem to burn our really quick)
7. What is the substrate: it's currently repti-sand. We take her out to feed her but after talking to the vet I'll be replacing with either newspaper or pet carpet (probably the newspaper, she had the carpet before and would burrow under it to the glass)
8. What size tank: ~50 gal, I'm looking at upgrading to a larger one eventually but she seems happy enough and it's rare that she's in there for more than 36 hours. We take her out alot, she likes riding on shoulders, goes to the pet store with us, or just on walks around the neighborhood. She even sits on the dashboard when hubby drives me to work if it's not too cold in the morning.
9. How many/big are the crix you are feeding: She gets adults, 30 of them once a week, and 2-3 small kingworms a day, though we're cutting back on those.
10. What greens: anything but iceberg lettuce. She loves kale and greenbeans, and radishes. She also gets fruit once or twice a week
11. Are you dusting w/ a multi vitamin and calcium: I think we are. my husband normally feeds her since I'm at work when she eats
12. Last poop: yesterday
13. Last soak: 2 days ago, it was also her first. I didn't know they liked to soak before that.
14. How long has he/she been in your home: she's been in the house for about a year and a half, but we've only had her for about 6 months.

Also...what the the vet say as to what is going on? What meds is she taking now? She's got some chest congestion and the dr. said something about an adenovirus. She's on three different meds, one's a broad spectrum antibiotic (they weren't willing to wait for the labs to get her results back) and the other two are to help with the congestion. She seems to be perking up, she bit me today while I was medicating her. I'm hoping we can get her to eat some solids today though, I'm not looking too forward to sticking another syringe in her mouth to feed her mash, I need my fingers to work.

 

[li]

OK...where to start. Please don't get overwhelmed when you see how many things I and most here would suggest changing. Once things get settled you will see a huge difference in her.

1. ok
2. Something is up with that measurement. The average beardie is 16-22" with a tail. So even without a tail she should be a good 12-15". Can you post a picture of her.
3. OK
4. Pop that up to 100*
5. Make sure you get one with a probe. The probe should be sitting on the basking spot. That is the hottest part of the tank where she hangs out and basks.
6. Those don't give off enough uvb. The best ones around right now are the Reptisun 10.0 tube style. They really do work the best. That for uvb along with a regular household bulb for heat is perfect.
7. Yup, take that out asap. That is basically a calcisand and it can cause impaction. Really bad stuff. Non particle is always best. Newspaper is fine, non adhesive shelf liner, repti carpet and ceramic tiles are good choices.

8. OK
9. So, normally an adult that is 3 years old the 30 crix a week is perfect. I am concerned though about the size of her. After I see a picture I can better judge this.
10. Unfortunately all those greens you are giving aren't good choices. Kale is really a bad one. Can cause calcium binding. Dandelion, escarole, swiss chard, escarole are some good choices.
11. Calcium dust once a week on crix and a multivitamin once every other week.
12. OK
13. Yes soaking is a great way to keep her hydrated. 2-3x a week is perfect.
14. K

OK...the congestion is probably a type of respiratory infection. That can be caused by temps too low and even the substrate. The antibiotic will help that. I am concerned about the adeno. That isn't a great diagnosis. A few years ago that would have been a death sentence for a beardie. But these days with meds and special care a beardie can survive this, although many times they are more sickly than normal.

I think I hit on most and I am sure others will chime in if I missed something. Like I said I know this is kind of overwhelming, but if you take it step by step you will be fine. Please post a picture of her as soon as you can. Also, the tank she is in. That will be really helpful.

 

[alise]

Thanks for the advice. Some of that's changes I was already thinking about making. The vet gave us a dietary guideline to help out a bit, I think we're trying to get her to eat collard greens right now. I could be (and probably am) wrong about her size. I wouldn't be surprised if she's closer to 8 or 10 inches and I just haven't realized it. I know she did a lot of growing when we first got her, and she's still shedding every month to month and a half, so I wouldn't be surprised to find that she's also younger than I think she is.

There were a few things that led to the vets diagnosis. She is definitely congested, the vet could barely hear her heart, she's been breathing really heavy to which is part of what worried me so much. When my husband admitted she hadn't eaten in almost four days I ordered him to call the vet on the spot. (He's trying, but he doesn't realize that having a gecko when you're 8 is not the same as having a beardie as an adult when you're the only one taking care of her). She wasn't pooping though that changed yesterday which was a big relief. Her throat slit isn't so much a slit as a large gap, and there was a "growth" behind that and the dr. also said something about gold speckles on the inside of her throat. I'm hoping that she's right and it's all caused by adenovirus, it'll shorten her life, but we can at least take care of our girl a little longer if that's the case.

Payday for me is thursday so I'll be making a whole bunch of changes then, but I'm cleaning her tank tonight, and the sand's coming out. (along with those pellets my husband insists are okay for her....she may like them but they're mostly corn and protein.

Aside from dandelion, escarole and swiss chard what would you suggest? I like to keep a good diverse diet, I figure we eat different stuff every day to keep our needs met, why shouldn't she?

I'm not terribly worried about UVB to tell the truth. she gets out almost daily, sometimes for five or six hours, but It'll become more of a concern as we swing back around to fall and it gets colder outside. I think we have a uvb tube light on her tank that pretty much stays on, it's a blue tube light, but let me double check with the husband what it is before I say for sure.

Thanks so much for the advice, anything I can do to help my girl live a long happy life. We've got other pets, but cats and chinchillas are easier to take care of.

 

[li]

If she is out daily in the sun, then you are correct about what you have being correct.

When you say "throat slit" I am not sure what you are referring to. Also, where is the growth and what did the vet say about that?

Although I know about adeno and have some information on it...there are a few members on here who have dealt and deal with adeno and can really give you the best information on it. Has the vet done the test to see if it truly is adeno?

 

[alise]

There's a slit in the back of her mouth that the vet says is wider than usual, and the "growth" is behind that. I didn't see that but my hubby did so I should probably ask him. The vet says it's likely due to the adeno and should clear up as we treat it. As to whether or not it's actually Adeno I should be getting a call in the next couple of days, they did a culture and sent it out to the lab and we're waiting to hear back.

This is Sophie:

And here's her in her habitat. She's comfortable with it, but I didn't realize how much she's grown, or how big she is in comparison to it so I'm pretty sure I'm getting her a bigger tank in the next couple of weeks. She's really only in there at night or when we have to be out most of the day, but still it seems really small, especially when she's puffed up. Of course now she's hiding under her log since it's bedtime, and I can't even see her. The tank does extend out of the picture on both sides, but with the lighting it's hard to get a better pic.

 

[li]

I don't know what I expected to see with the measurements you gave, but she looks good. She is on the smaller side, but she doesn't look skinny or sick.

Make the changes in the tank and get the new digital thermometers. Change up with the greens...dandelions, escarole, swiss chard, collards, chicory are some good ones. And wait for the culture to come back. Then you will have more answers.

What is the antibiotic she is on now for the respiratory infection? Sometimes an antibiotic like in humans can make a beardie sick. The medicine not only takes away the bad bacteria it also takes away some of the good which helps us and them digest their food. During the time she is on the meds give her some benebac and soak her daily. This will really help.

 

[alise]

Just checked her meds, the anti is enalapril. We're also giving her baytril and ferosimide I think it was...

 

[li]

Did a bit of research on those drugs. I know that baytril is an antibiotic and will help with any infections. the other two drugs I hadn't heard of as one of the common reptile drugs. It looks to me like both of those are for congestive heart failure and renal failure in animals. I remember you saying that the vet couldn't hear the heart at all due to the fluid...that could by why those meds. They also could be a common drug when a beardie has adeno. Adeno can cause a host of other problems in beardies. Will be curious to hear the result of that test. Make sure you give him some acidophilus or benabac during the antibiotic treatment.

 

[ladyknite]

Lisa has given you some great advice. I tend to agree. The Enalapril and Ferosimide isn't used well in reptiles. It's used rather often in mammals, case in point, feline leukemia. However, unlike mammals, it rapidly dehydrates and causes renal distress in reptiles. the currently used Baytril is the correct medication. The other two are overkill and i'd highly recommend taking her off them.

As for the adenovirus..........I doubt the gold speckles have anything to do with adenovirus. If there is a growth in the throat, that should be addressed, but use caution in deciding whether it's better to treat the problem at hand, or the problem the solution creates.

Adenovirus is a virus wide spread. But like Lisa stated, it's not a death sentence. I've heard it compared many times to the human AIDS virus. It's not the actual virus that gets you, it's the subviruses and the treatment plan. Your best option is to treat what is currently at hand, the respiratory infection. Then spend the next 3 months watching and observing her for odd behavior, parasites, or another uncontrolled illness growing in the background. Treat what is necessary, leave what is not. Adenovirus builds immunities, so you need to hold back the meds when you are able to.

 

[alise]

Thanks both of you for the great advice.

At the moment we're choosing to treat the immediate problem, especially since we're not 100% certain that it is adeno. The vet called today with the results but we were out so I'll have to call her back tomorrow.

My husband handles her feedings and meds, and knowing him as soon as he thinks she'll be okay without them he'll stop the meds. I'll pick up the Benebac tomorrow and start giving it to her too.

Now I'm off to take measurements, I'm building a new shelving unit this weekend and plan on building her a new habitat right into it.

 

[alise]

Good news, we just heard back from the vet, and it's most deffinitely NOT Adeno! Wooot!

The culture came back with only a bad bacteria growing in it, not ones that should have been so we're going to keep her on the meds for a little longer, but the vet wants us to start weaning her off them in a week or so. Hubby's on the way to pick up the benebac now as the vet had some on hand. ^_^ So happy my girl's gonna be okay.

 

[li]

That is wonderful news. Now just get her better from the RI and make those husbandry changes we talked about and she should be good to go.