Sexing method idea

[crypticdragons]

Wanted to run this by some folks.
So on monitor forums i have seen a lot of mention of using bright led lights to sex monitors (looking for the outline of a hemipenis.)
I wonder if this would be effective for sexing dragons. I didnt have a chance to check it today but tomorrow i will be. Just wanted to see if anyone has tried this. YOu illuminate the base of the tail from the top and for a male theoretically you should see the outline of the hemipenis as a darker area with lighter between and on either side.

 

[crypticdragons]

well i did this with Dr. Evil and Bella late last night. And it deffinately works with adults. There was a very apparent outline for dr. evil's hemipenis and bella had not outline. I wonder if this would work on babies. I need someone with multiple young dragons to check this against. Tom ??? lol.

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

interesting idea, but I dont have any LED lights to test them.
My guess is like any system with time and practice it would work just as well as looking under the skirt so to speak.

 

[crypticdragons]

a bright flashlight would work just as well, such as a mag light.
im fairly certain (though i havent tested it on a baby yet) that this method would be much more accurate than the "under the skirt" method (lmao :). I just gotta test it. maybe ill go to the pet store and "scan" some of their babies. I know the reptile guy so i know he would let me.

 

[zebraflavencs]

Interesting... think I need to add a led to my december list of stuff to get... hmmmm.
Janie

 

[beardielover17]

hmmm so basically its like candling their tail brian? if so i have to pull out the maglite later and test it on frank and boris

 

[crypticdragons]

i gotta find someone with babies that can check with this.

 

[crypticdragons]

hmmm so basically its like candling their tail brian? if so i have to pull out the maglite later and test it on frank and boris

yeah essentially its the same as candling a egg.

 

[beardielover17]

im gonna have to try this when i get home from work

 

[crypticdragons]

yeah works well on adults. Dr. evil was very obvious when this method was applied.

 

[beardielover17]

boris always had very defined "lumps" even as a hatchling...i can only imagine how more defined it will be under the light...i bet he's very proud of himself

 

[crypticdragons]

lol oh geez

 

[crypticdragons]

Ok well I did sit down on try this on my three breeders. and there is a deffinate difference on the light that comes through. As i said previously Dr. evil's hemipenes is very obvious when the light is applied and bella obviously has nothing that blocks out any light, Koral's light transference is identical to Bella. I have enlisted the help of a breeder friend of mine and have made a post on .org to try and get a larger group of information as my 3 adults is not a accurate representation of how this test works on hatchlings, juvies, and other adults. Stay tuned for more info as it comes.

 

[TheVirus]

Hey Brian,

I've tried it on babies, but for me, their tail is too tiny and I have a hard time seeing. I end up being temporarily blind by the light

I did it on one of my ackies and all that happened was it bit me in the dark

 

[crypticdragons]

Lol @ your ackie defending its honor lmao

id guess with babies you would have to use a single LED or very small flashlight (like a pin light)

 

[Red Ink AUS]

Hi Bri,
Bit of an old post but i have got some "new" reference and info for you from around these parts . This technique is used down under and with great success (specially with varanids as you know).

Any way here's a direct quote from a breeder of Australian agamids on discussions on this subject.

"I did it a week or so ago and It was clear that 4 had hemipens and glowed a red colour whereas the oother 4 just glowed yellow. So at this stage it ooks like 4 of each sex. It works great on most dragons Works well on water dragons and beardies but not sure about blue tongues. I would imagine you would need a stronger light as there scales are thicker."

"......but have used on the following species with success: Jacky Dragon, Mountain Dragon, Eastern Bearded, Central Bearded, Mitchells bearded, Henrylawson Bearded, Central Netted, Ridge tailed monitors and Black Headed monitors. It's only really a party trick for most of them (as they can be easily sexed by raising their tails) But is good for sexing animals which are not showing anything (cause to young)."

Reference to an article on the subject by Dr. Danny Brown (geckodan to us aussies, a herpetologist/researcher) in an issue of Biawak Vol 3 Issue 1 March 2009 (pp. 25 -29)

http://varanidae.org/Vol3_No1.pdf

Cheers mate,

 

[crypticdragons]

Francis

Was there any mention on the two quoted convos of what ages these were viable at?

 

[Red Ink AUS]

Francis

Was there any mention on the two quoted convos of what ages these were viable at?

1-2 months mate, but that was originally for Hypsilurus boydii (Boyd's forest dragon). Now in saying that these agamids have a very permeable skin. I would suspect it would be the same age for Pagonas as at that age the epidemise (scales) would be less thick than older specimens so it could actually be easier when they are younger.

 

[crypticdragons]

thats what im thinking. Ill be testing out some theories in late september and will be posting what i find (as i didnt get anyone that "participated" lol). So we shall see. Gotta try it out with a few different lighting types and different clutches. Sometimes it can be hard to differentiate when they are young (month old and what not) so if it works out it will be a great way to add some stability to your sexing so we shall see. Thanks a ton for the info and the link.

 

[Red Ink AUS]

No worries mate, don't forget to keep us updated on your findings (you could always go to pet shops and randomly do it to the hatchlings, I wonder how long it will take for you to get kicked out if you do lol).