Probably Overthinking heating/Ceramic Tile

[Jester]

I recently adopted Jester and his previous owner was using Vita-sand (yuck!) as a substrate. So I went out to Home Depot and picked up tiles to meet my preference and appease my visual tastes. However, after cleaning out his tank, I came across a problem that I'm going to have to fix. Whoever resealed his current tank used so much sealant that my tiles will NOT fit correctly in it. So, I'm planning on stripping it out and resealing it this weekend. Since I encountered this little gem, I cleaned out my "sick reptile" tank and Jester is currently residing until his tank is properly resealed. The problem is its a 20 gallon long. I'm a little concerned with the basking light being so close to the ceramic tile burning his belly. It heats up fast and holds the heat pretty well.

The solution I came to was to run his basking light for about an hour in the morning while he wakes up and I prepare everyone's breakfasts. Once I get everyone fed I turn off his light til the early evening and run it for about another hour before its lights out. Unfortunately, I'm having to guess on the temps right now, as I was cleaning out various tanks, someone decided my digital thermometer was a chew toy. Guess who's going shopping after work today.

Suggestions other than hiding thermometers from puppies?

 

[Pat B]

I would venture to say that you need the basking light 12 hrs on 12 hrs off. They like the heat as that is their normal environment. Germ? Where are you? He will have the absolute correct answer for you. The beardies need the heat to help with digestion. I would hurry up and get that tank setup so Jester will have the proper lighting I have learned that beardies know what they need. If the tile is too hot in the basking area he will move to a cooler part of the tank. Good luck and send some pics when you are done.

 

[Germ]

I agree with Pat, BD's know what they need better than we do, provided the proper options are provided to them. BDs do not only need heat while eating, Pat is also very correct in that the heat is required to digest food properly. The Basking & UVB bulbs should be on 12-14 hrs a day, off for the rest. I have found that 12\12 works very well for them & an electronic timer for the lights is highly recommended to keep their Day\Night schedule consistent. If you are really concerned about the tile being too hot, use a lower wattage bulb, don't shut the lights off for the majority of the day ... Please acquire a digital thermometer with a sensor, or if your enclosure does not have a full screen top, an infrared (Temp Gun) can be used, asap, so you can check your temps accurately in the proper areas.

An absolute minimum 40 Gal breeder tank is required to house an adult BD, Bigger is Better. I am a little confused if the 20 Gal you are using is the hospital tank or the one you are repairing.

on loosing the Vita-Sand.

Example of a Basic Setup: Showing the recommended Basic requirements, proper Temperatures & the points at which they should be measured from in Red & the optional choices that are actually used in this particular example enclosure, in Black.​

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Read more: http://www.beardeddragonforum.com/index.php?threads/basic-bd-care-sheet-a-place-to-start.5177/#ixzz1zZ8HUVMF​

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Here are some links with pertinent information that you may find very helpful & answer the majority of your questions. Read them over, if there are things that you don't understand or have further questions, feel free to ask.​

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Bearded Dragon Basic Care Guide​

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Exclusive Bearded Dragon Care Info Library​

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Beautiful Dragons Nutrition Chart​

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Cohabitation​

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Good Luck​

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EDIT: In reference to your other post in 'Introductions' ...​

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We go to some lengths to setup the enclosures for our scaley friends with the proper temps, UVB etc. But it does them absolutely no good if they are not in them . Extended time spent outside of the enclosure, keeps them away from their needed heat & UVB. These are not furry pets, such as Cats or Dogs & should not be treated as such. BDs are well known for their social behavior & ability to 'Tolerate' handling quite well, but given their options they would just as happy left unbothered in the security of their environment. This is not to say 'Don't handle them', but be realistic about the time spent outside of the controlled environment for their health & wellbeing.​

 

[Kodieh]

Ceramic is actually an insulator rather than a conductor for heat, so even if your bd doesn't know what's good for him you shouldn't run into many problems for now.


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[ThDude]

well you could just go get the repti-carpet from a pet store for 15 bucks that lasts forever and can be washed. this is by far the most easy bedding i have seen. easy clean and if you want to every 6 months or so you can buy another one if your old ones not looking good.

btw as said before a 20 gallon tank will not work, even for a young dragon. i had mine in one while he was 5 inches though i moved him into a 40 gallon breeder in less then a month.

also i would like to point out in that picture of the set up that "%100 calcium phosphorus free" is actually 36-40% calcium and 30-40% D3 as i have seen that container before. i know this is not important and its just an exsample but i was just pointing that out.

 

[Germ]

Yup, you are right, but that is the container that happened to be in the pic . I would periodically, once a week or so, dust with the D3 as recommended here ...

General feeding/supplementation schedule:
For hatchlings and young juveniles (up to 2 months): Fresh greens/veg. 1-2 times daily - Live prey 2-3 times per day
Dusted: Five days per week with phosphorus free calcium – one day per week calcium with D3 - One day per week with a vitamin supplement such as Reptivite or Herptivite.

For juveniles and sub-adults (2 months to sexual maturity): Fresh greens/veg 1-2 times daily - Live prey 1-2 times per day
Dusted: Five days per week with phosphorus free calcium – One day per week with calcium with D3 - One day per week with a vitamin supplement such as Reptivite or Herptivite.

For adults (generally 1+ year): Fresh greens/veg 1- 2 times daily - Live prey every 2-3 days.
Dusted: Every other feeding with phosphorus free calcium - Twice per month with calcium with D3 - One day per week with a vitamin supplement such as Reptivite or Herptivite.

As there are different circumstances that may arise, this schedule is recommended only as a general guide and may be altered to accommodate individual situations. Using a tracking method of when you dust prevents unnecessary use of product and more importantly, potential harm to your dragon! With proper and effective UVB lighting, supplementation with vitamin D3 is not imperative but should be provided in small amounts. Excessive levels of oral vitamin D3 can potentially lead to the excessive absorption and utilization of calcium and/or toxicity as can the excessive use of supplements containing high levels of vitamin A. Over use of any supplement can have the potential to cause serious health problems, stick to an appropriate supplementation schedule.

Read more: http://www.beardeddragonforum.com/index.php?threads/basic-bd-care-sheet-a-place-to-start.5177/#ixzz1zZrusUXG​

 

[Kodieh]

Actually, the reptile carpet is severely difficult to clean. It can harbor bacteria for a long time. Tile is the best bet, next to paper towels. Newspaper is "good", but the ink will rub off.

I've personally seen leopard geckos with teeth and toes stuck in the reptile carpet, so I imagine the consequences could be a little larger with a larger animal.


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[Pat B]

My substrate is slate(?) from Lowes'....6x6 squares....easy to clean the poo and Spike doesn't slip and slide.

 

[ThDude]

Actually, the reptile carpet is severely difficult to clean. It can harbor bacteria for a long time. Tile is the best bet, next to paper towels. Newspaper is "good", but the ink will rub off.

I've personally seen leopard geckos with teeth and toes stuck in the reptile carpet, so I imagine the consequences could be a little larger with a larger animal.


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not so, very hot water in the bath tub and a good soak and scrub does wonders, you can also freeze it.

 

[Jester]

Okay, apparently I wasn't very clear in this situation. So, first I will address a few things. The hospital tank is NOT the one that needed repair. I have too many other reptiles and amphibians to have to have that one in need of repair itself. The hospital tank is my 20 gallon long. His DAY lamp was left on, it was his Basking SPOT lamp that I was concerned with since the dog decided to run off with my digital probe while I was cleaning. The concern was because the 20gallon long is not as tall, the lamp actually heating the ceramic to the point of burning his belly and there actually not being a cool side to the tank because of how shallow the tank is. That said, at this point its a non-issue. I had began the process of stripping out the mountain of sealant in his original tank, only to have one of the sides shatter on me. So instead of only spending a few bucks to replace my probe and new sealant, I ended up buying a whole new tank and probe. Problem and concern resolved.

While my introduction probably did sound like I keep him out of his enclosure for extended periods, that perception is inaccurate. He throws a hissy fit when I have to clean out his tank, so he hangs out while I clean up his poo and strewn about veggies and back in the tank he goes. Hes maybe out in half hour increments at best, and that basking in his favorite window sill. Although the room (not enclosure, the ROOM) he is in, he would probably be okay out longer. Its the hottest (averaging 98 degrees in the summer at 11 in the morning) room in the house. It also gets natural sunlight ALL day long. So maintaining temps is a critical concern for me.

I'm not entirely new to reptiles. I have a 12 year old Leopard Gecko, as well as several other animals in my care. Obviously, I'm doing something right in general. Beardies are just newer to me and I haven't learned all of the Beardie and specifically Jester's nuances. After loosing Sketches last year, I'm a little gun shy. If I came off as defensive, I apologize. I'm a direct person and it comes off poorly in this form of communication. Now all I have to do is get some more decorations for his new digs. Unfortunately the new tank put that on hold til next payday. Once it's finished I'll upload a few pictures for you guys.

 

[Germ]

My confusion was if the 20 Gal was the hospital tank or his permanent tank that your were going to repair. You have cleared that up. What is a day lamp? Even in a 20 Gal a heat gradient should be possible, so it should have been able to find a cooler area if needed rather than directly below the Basking lamp. While BDs do not sense heat on their undersides very well, if at all & can easily get burned without knowing it, in this instance, it should sense it being too hot from above with it's 'third eye'. The solution is still, use a lower wattage bulb if the one you are using is hot enough to heat the tile to the point of burning it.

Housing your BD in a room that has an ambient room temp of 98F would seem to pose issues with heating the enclosure & not providing a cooler area when needed of 80-85F. Unless the room that gets natural sunlight all day long has mesh walls or all screened windows, it is not natural sunlight & the BD will not receive the benefits needed from it, other than the added heat, because UVB can not pass through a solid filter such as glass or plastic.

You have not mentioned if you are providing a UVB bulb.

Good luck

 

[Jester]

Okay Germ, since you are apparently the go to guy, and the guy I have to prove I'm not a complete idiot to: The day after I adopted Jester, I went out and bought a reptisun 10.0 because his previous owner couldnt recall when he last replaced it. Im also using a 60 Watt Zoomed CHE for his Basking Spot lamp.

Yes, providing a cooler spot is tougherwith as warm as that particular room gets, but I've been managing for years with my other "critters". However, the summers here aren't so long. I spend more months pushing heat into everyone's enclosures so they get what they need than the 3 maybe 4 months that it's hotter than hades in there. Hides help.

His staple diet consists of Kale, Collard Greens, Dandelion Greens (although they just went of season here), Peas, Carrots, Super worms, the occassional watermelon and mango bits supplemented with D3.

Any other questions I need to answer to show that I'm not a troll?

 

[Germ]

You have nothing to prove to me. There is no reason for it to make you feel defensive, like a complete idiot &\or that you are a troll, if someone is providing good, helpful info, asking questions to understand the situation. Too many times if the questions aren't asked, problems occur & many, many BDs are much better off because they were. Your concerns are confusing, there is no way that a 60W CHE is going to produce enough heat to warm the tile anywhere near burning temps at 12" away. Had that information been provided to start with, without playing 20 questions, the responses would have been different. The more common method of day time heating is a light emitting bulb because BDs thrive on bright white light (UVA).

 

[Jester]

Perhpas I am coming off a bit strong here, and for that I apologize. Reading my posts, the information seems clear enough, but then I am here and you guys aren't to see exactly what the situation is: hence my frustration - I can see and understand it, put the thoughts to "paper" and it may not be so clear in cyberland and not getting the information I was trying to get to. However, as I stated earlier, the question orginally posted is now a non issue. The hospital tank is now cleaned and back in its storage space, and Jester is in a brand new enclosure. Just have to redecorate since his old enclosure was taller, that means a new everything basically. I didn't like his old decor anyway.

Again My apologies; a most humbled and stress relieved,

Jester Momma

 

[Pat B]

You are right Jester's momma...Germ is the 'go to' guy and a lot of other people on this forum. He is soooo knowledgeable and will help anyone out with any questions or concerns. If it weren't for Germ my little beardie would probably be in the pet cemetery in my back yard..... This is a good forum with lots of people that are willing to share their knowledge and experiences with beardies. Ask away with your questions as there is no such thing as an 'idiot' .

 

[blackclaw83]

Here this will help. Go to google and type in
where is chuck norris
then click the first one.....you will get a laugh and feel so much better....
Germ and Pat are helping me out alot with my Little Spaz right now......