IS THIS GOUT OR MBD??!

[Taiotai]

hi my beardie is 8months old and recently I’ve noticed that his front arms are slightly swollen. As you can see

He’s been very lazy , always lying around. And whenever he does move it’s with a limp his front legs are limping and his back legs kinda just drag from behind.

I have a bad feeling that this could be the start of grout which is very painful for bearded dragons. As for his diet it consists of just proteins (which I NOW know can cause grout, I didn’t before hence why I’m kinda panicking) it’s usually just wax worms , crickets & locusts. I douse the crickets in calcium and reptivite now and again around twice a week , I feel as if I may have overdone it? I know too much calcium can cause swelling? .he poos around every other day and honestly there’s not much of it especially for an 8month old beardie his poos should be of a fairly large size and should be daily right?

he’s also going into shed , two days ago he shed his arms + legs , could that be the reason they’re swollen?

as for water , I bathe him only when he’s shedding , but other than that I will spray him with water around 2 times a day.
I’ve heard of black cherry and allopurinol , should I try these to help?

 

[Julee1971]

hi my beardie is 8months old and recently I’ve noticed that his front arms are slightly swollen. As you can see

View attachment 26327
He’s been very lazy , always lying around. And whenever he does move it’s with a limp his front legs are limping and his back legs kinda just drag from behind.
View attachment 26331I have a bad feeling that this could be the start of grout which is very painful for bearded dragons. As for his diet it consists of just proteins (which I NOW know can cause grout, I didn’t before hence why I’m kinda panicking) it’s usually just wax worms , crickets & locusts. I douse the crickets in calcium and reptivite now and again around twice a week , I feel as if I may have overdone it? I know too much calcium can cause swelling? .he poos around every other day and honestly there’s not much of it especially for an 8month old beardie his poos should be of a fairly large size and should be daily right?

he’s also going into shed , two days ago he shed his arms + legs , could that be the reason they’re swollen?

as for water , I bathe him only when he’s shedding , but other than that I will spray him with water around 2 times a day.
I’ve heard of black cherry and allopurinol , should I try these to help?

Hi; swollen limbs/lethargy/no energy signs & symptoms of MBD. This is very serious. He needs lots of UVB, calcium powder and lots of proteins; crickets & Dubia roaches alongside his fresh plate of greens/veggies. Do u have a uvb light? I don’t see one. The Best & only recommend one is the Reptisun 10.0 T5 & all uvb bulbs need replacing every 6Mnths religiously. Please order this ASAP. The length u order needs to cover 70percent of the tank. Uvb breaks down the calcium for absorption & provides the Beardie with Vitamin D which they need for strong bones & energy. Never ever use a colored or coiled bulbs for heat or uvb ever; this is very very harmful to their eyes & does not provide adequate UVB if any. At night when sleeping No lights on ever. U can use a 60 watt ceramic heat emitter if temp falls below 70 in the spring and winter; summer u won’t need it. Both uvb & Heat lights are to remain on in the winter for 10-12 hours more like 10; they have less energy in the winter & in the summer 12-14 hours; more like 14. Also; he needs a hideaway to hide under once in a while; I use hammock with a soft towel over it amd a soft fleece blanket underneath so he can hide. U can correct MBD depending on how severe he his or he mite need calcium shots at the vet to help him. For now please order this Reptisun 10.0 T5 uVb; it’s a long tubular light asap attached is a photo & lots of proteins hes only 8mnthsbold so feed him twice a day the proteins. Calcium pwder is as follows: 3-4 times a week once per day only & lightly sprinkle it like salt on fries, place the crickets in a ziplock, sprinkle & shake the bag till they are lightly powdered. In your case; as soon as u get the Reptisun uvb light; give him calcium powder 5times a week for 6Mnths or so till he gets healthy & then do 4times per week but always only once per day. The herptivite is once per week/per day on a non calcium day. & u do the same sprinkle it like salt on fries.
Baths: 2per week in lukewarm dechlorinated water for 15min minimum. Give more baths when he’s shedding it helps with itching & helps the skin fall off quicker. Never peel or remove the skin. Chlorine dries out their skin & is bad for them. Buy Reptisafe to place drops in the water to kill the chlorine. Spraying a few tiems a day is great again dechlorinated water in your spray bottle. Poops: Beardies poop daily or every other day or every 2days. If not pooping for days on end the heat is off &/or he is impacted from sand, bad food like mealworms, pellets or bottled food or large food items which they should never be fed. Also, a Beardie cannot eat horn or superworms until after they turn a year old; their digestive tract cannot handle them. They are Good proteins to add to their diet after they turn a year old, but in moderation coz they are high in fat. sand that was ingested As long as the poop is firm and the urate (pee) is white you are good. If runny or smelly he has a parasite so do a stool sample test at a good reptile vet; he may have Coccidia.
Food: only feed crickets and Dubia roaches for protein. Super worms & hornworms are good too if over a year old & as treats cuz they are high in fat. Never ever feed mealworms or bottled food/pellets that’s destructive to their tummy’s. And always a fresh plate or two per day of greens & veggies 2-3 of each. Never ever feed spinach it binds to calcium. The best everyday ones are: mustard greens, collard Greens, butternut squash, yellow squash, endives, green beans, & snap peas u can do some red bell peppers also. Fruits a few times a week the best are blueberries & papaya. Also it takes 2hoirs to digest food so don’t feed too late cuz the lights need to be on for 2hoirs to digest. And in the am don’t feed the proteins till he’s been basking for an hour or two. Fresh plate of veggies once-twice a day on the cold side change when they get wilted. This should help u can help recover him back to normal & wipl
See dramatic improvement with the Reptisun Uvb make sure it’s 10.0 T5 for now u can buy one from a local petstore they sell T8’s at Petsmart it’s better than nothing jist make sure it’s a 10.0 that’s the output; 5.0 is little to No Uvb and return it when the good one arrives that u order online. Good luck & u can help him, he will be better in no time. U may also wanna take him to a vet & he may need some shots of calcium but let the vet no that u had improper or no uvb. Sadly pet stores give front info & many people house Beardies Improperly & they suffer.

 

[Taiotai]

Hi; swollen limbs/lethargy/no energy signs & symptoms of MBD. This is very serious. He needs lots of UVB, calcium powder and lots of proteins; crickets & Dubia roaches alongside his fresh plate of greens/veggies. Do u have a uvb light? I don’t see one. The Best & only recommend one is the Reptisun 10.0 T5 & all uvb bulbs need replacing every 6Mnths religiously. Please order this ASAP. The length u order needs to cover 70percent of the tank. Uvb breaks down the calcium for absorption & provides the Beardie with Vitamin D which they need for strong bones & energy. Never ever use a colored or coiled bulbs for heat or uvb ever; this is very very harmful to their eyes & does not provide adequate UVB if any. At night when sleeping No lights on ever. U can use a 60 watt ceramic heat emitter if temp falls below 70 in the spring and winter; summer u won’t need it. Both uvb & Heat lights are to remain on in the winter for 10-12 hours more like 10; they have less energy in the winter & in the summer 12-14 hours; more like 14. Also; he needs a hideaway to hide under once in a while; I use hammock with a soft towel over it amd a soft fleece blanket underneath so he can hide. U can correct MBD depending on how severe he his or he mite need calcium shots at the vet to help him. For now please order this Reptisun 10.0 T5 uVb; it’s a long tubular light asap attached is a photo & lots of proteins hes only 8mnthsbold so feed him twice a day the proteins. Calcium pwder is as follows: 3-4 times a week once per day only & lightly sprinkle it like salt on fries, place the crickets in a ziplock, sprinkle & shake the bag till they are lightly powdered. In your case; as soon as u get the Reptisun uvb light; give him calcium powder 5times a week for 6Mnths or so till he gets healthy & then do 4times per week but always only once per day. The herptivite is once per week/per day on a non calcium day. & u do the same sprinkle it like salt on fries.
Baths: 2per week in lukewarm dechlorinated water for 15min minimum. Give more baths when he’s shedding it helps with itching & helps the skin fall off quicker. Never peel or remove the skin. Chlorine dries out their skin & is bad for them. Buy Reptisafe to place drops in the water to kill the chlorine. Spraying a few tiems a day is great again dechlorinated water in your spray bottle. Poops: Beardies poop daily or every other day or every 2days. If not pooping for days on end the heat is off &/or he is impacted from sand, bad food like mealworms, pellets or bottled food or large food items which they should never be fed. Also, a Beardie cannot eat horn or superworms until after they turn a year old; their digestive tract cannot handle them. They are Good proteins to add to their diet after they turn a year old, but in moderation coz they are high in fat. sand that was ingested As long as the poop is firm and the urate (pee) is white you are good. If runny or smelly he has a parasite so do a stool sample test at a good reptile vet; he may have Coccidia.
Food: only feed crickets and Dubia roaches for protein. Super worms & hornworms are good too if over a year old & as treats cuz they are high in fat. Never ever feed mealworms or bottled food/pellets that’s destructive to their tummy’s. And always a fresh plate or two per day of greens & veggies 2-3 of each. Never ever feed spinach it binds to calcium. The best everyday ones are: mustard greens, collard Greens, butternut squash, yellow squash, endives, green beans, & snap peas u can do some red bell peppers also. Fruits a few times a week the best are blueberries & papaya. Also it takes 2hoirs to digest food so don’t feed too late cuz the lights need to be on for 2hoirs to digest. And in the am don’t feed the proteins till he’s been basking for an hour or two. Fresh plate of veggies once-twice a day on the cold side change when they get wilted. This should help u can help recover him back to normal & wipl
See dramatic improvement with the Reptisun Uvb make sure it’s 10.0 T5 for now u can buy one from a local petstore they sell T8’s at Petsmart it’s better than nothing jist make sure it’s a 10.0 that’s the output; 5.0 is little to No Uvb and return it when the good one arrives that u order online. Good luck & u can help him, he will be better in no time. U may also wanna take him to a vet & he may need some shots of calcium but let the vet no that u had improper or no uvb. Sadly pet stores give front info & many people house Beardies Improperly & they suffer

Hi thankyou so much for replying! I do have a UVB light and its by Arcadia and emits 10% UVB it also spans almost all of his 120 gallon tank, I also give him calcium 2/3 times a week and I will shake up a bag of crickets to even disperse it on them. I’m putting like 2/3 pinches of calcium in the bag before hand , surely it can’t be because of UVB rays and calcium because I give him a lot of that, maybe even too much? I heard too much can make joints swell. I also do have reptivite dust which has D3 in it and I also sprinkle that on food from time to time. im going to implement more greens into his diet incase I’ve been giving him too much proteins and if its because he’s dehydrated I’ll be giving him more water , including frequent baths. his substrate is wood chips so he doesn’t get impacted or attempt to even swallow them. thankyou so much for your help and I will use all your advice religiously , if he doesn’t show signs of getting better in the next day or so I’ll take him down to the vet

 

[Julee1971]

Hi thankyou so much for replying! I do have a UVB light and its by Arcadia and emits 10% UVB it also spans almost all of his 120 gallon tank, I also give him calcium 2/3 times a week and I will shake up a bag of crickets to even disperse it on them. I’m putting like 2/3 pinches of calcium in the bag before hand , surely it can’t be because of UVB rays and calcium because I give him a lot of that, maybe even too much? I heard too much can make joints swell. I also do have reptivite dust which has D3 in it and I also sprinkle that on food from time to time. im going to implement more greens into his diet incase I’ve been giving him too much proteins and if its because he’s dehydrated I’ll be giving him more water , including frequent baths. his substrate is wood chips so he doesn’t get impacted or attempt to even swallow them. thankyou so much for your help and I will use all your advice religiously , if he doesn’t show signs of getting better in the next day or so I’ll take him down to the vet

Hi; Are you replacing the UVB every 6Mnths? It needs replacing every 6mnths, it will still turn on and emit light but NO uvb so def change it every 6mnths; without UVB they can’t breakdown the calcium. And YeS too much calcium is bad only once per day 3-4 times a week only on the crickets that you are serving at the moment, don’t calcium the entire bag of crickets sprinkle only the ones u will feed him. Also; does he have a hideaway to get away from the uvb? This is very very Impt he needs a hideaway to hide from the uvb. It spiffs Mike he may have too much uvb if it’s covering most of the tank hopefully it’s above the screen not Inside the tank. Tyoically it should be in the tank but yours is excessive if covering the entire tank so better that it sits on top of the screen. The uvb should cover only 70prcnt & he should be at least 10inches away from it or more. Too much UVB is harmful too; is the uvb in the tank or on top of the screen mesh? Calcium only once per day 3-4 times a week u sprinkle it lightly so they are lightly dusted & DONOT use reptivite; have no idea what that is; the vitamin to use is: Herptivite & only once per week on a non calcium day. The water needs to be dechlorinated ok? Buy Reptisafe. As far as the Greens & veggies use the ones I recommended they love mustard greens, dandelions too and yellow squash, snap peas and butternut squash are the top fav’s. All the ones on the list I gave u on the earlier post are great. Fruits: blueberries and papayas a few times a week. Sugar is not good for them so in moderation only. He’s 8mnths old so needs a decent amount of protein but if you overfeed he could have FattyLiver Disease from too much protein. He should get a plate of veggies and greens cut up to small pieces everyday plus some proteins at his age; he’s only 8mnths so still growing. Do 15-20 large crickets per day or a mix of Dubias & crickets or 5 superworms. He should be fed proteins twice a day till he reaches 1 year of age then feed once per day or once every other day. If U have been over feeding him more than def slow down to once per day on the proteins & lots of veggies/greens. After a year old or more u can feed proteins once per day or every other day but always the plate of fresh veggies and greens forever. Yes hope he gets better & if not, take him to the vet to test for fatty liver disease or anything else. And u are very welcome.

 

[Julee1971]

Hi; Are you replacing the UVB every 6Mnths? It needs replacing every 6mnths, it will still turn on and emit light but NO uvb so def change it every 6mnths; without UVB they can’t breakdown the calcium. And YeS too much calcium is bad only once per day 3-4 times a week only on the crickets that you are serving at the moment, don’t calcium the entire bag of crickets sprinkle only the ones u will feed him. Also; does he have a hideaway to get away from the uvb? This is very very Impt he needs a hideaway to hide from the uvb. It spiffs Mike he may have too much uvb if it’s covering most of the tank hopefully it’s above the screen not Inside the tank. Tyoically it should be in the tank but yours is excessive if covering the entire tank so better that it sits on top of the screen. The uvb should cover only 70prcnt & he should be at least 10inches away from it or more. Too much UVB is harmful too; is the uvb in the tank or on top of the screen mesh? Calcium only once per day 3-4 times a week u sprinkle it lightly so they are lightly dusted & DONOT use reptivite; have no idea what that is; the vitamin to use is: Herptivite & only once per week on a non calcium day. The water needs to be dechlorinated ok? Buy Reptisafe. As far as the Greens & veggies use the ones I recommended they love mustard greens, dandelions too and yellow squash, snap peas and butternut squash are the top fav’s. All the ones on the list I gave u on the earlier post are great. Fruits: blueberries and papayas a few times a week. Sugar is not good for them so in moderation only. He’s 8mnths old so needs a decent amount of protein but if you overfeed he could have FattyLiver Disease from too much protein. He should get a plate of veggies and greens cut up to small pieces everyday plus some proteins at his age; he’s only 8mnths so still growing. Do 15-20 large crickets per day or a mix of Dubias & crickets or 5 superworms. He should be fed proteins twice a day till he reaches 1 year of age then feed once per day or once every other day. If U have been over feeding him more than def slow down to once per day on the proteins & lots of veggies/greens. After a year old or more u can feed proteins once per day or every other day but always the plate of fresh veggies and greens forever. Yes hope he gets better & if not, take him to the vet to test for fatty liver disease or anything else. And u are very welcome.

It’s def more than likely MBD on the dragon if the UVB is not being replaced every 6Mnths; without it he cannot absorb vitamin D or breakdown the calcium or have energy to move or walk; please get on that ASAP that’s why he can’t walk & is swollen. Also, I’m looking at the photos again & is there any ventilation in that enclosure? What size tank is that? He needs 40gallon minimum then at 8mnths need to switch to a bigger like a 120 gallon or so. Can u send a full photo? And get him a hammock and soft fleece blanket & a hideaway. I hope he can see out of the cage also. Please see my photos & make some changes.

 

[Taiotai]

Hi; Are you replacing the UVB every 6Mnths? It needs replacing every 6mnths, it will still turn on and emit light but NO uvb so def change it every 6mnths; without UVB they can’t breakdown the calcium. And YeS too much calcium is bad only once per day 3-4 times a week only on the crickets that you are serving at the moment, don’t calcium the entire bag of crickets sprinkle only the ones u will feed him. Also; does he have a hideaway to get away from the uvb? This is very very Impt he needs a hideaway to hide from the uvb. It spiffs Mike he may have too much uvb if it’s covering most of the tank hopefully it’s above the screen not Inside the tank. Tyoically it should be in the tank but yours is excessive if covering the entire tank so better that it sits on top of the screen. The uvb should cover only 70prcnt & he should be at least 10inches away from it or more. Too much UVB is harmful too; is the uvb in the tank or on top of the screen mesh? Calcium only once per day 3-4 times a week u sprinkle it lightly so they are lightly dusted & DONOT use reptivite; have no idea what that is; the vitamin to use is: Herptivite & only once per week on a non calcium day. The water needs to be dechlorinated ok? Buy Reptisafe. As far as the Greens & veggies use the ones I recommended they love mustard greens, dandelions too and yellow squash, snap peas and butternut squash are the top fav’s. All the ones on the list I gave u on the earlier post are great. Fruits: blueberries and papayas a few times a week. Sugar is not good for them so in moderation only. He’s 8mnths old so needs a decent amount of protein but if you overfeed he could have FattyLiver Disease from too much protein. He should get a plate of veggies and greens cut up to small pieces everyday plus some proteins at his age; he’s only 8mnths so still growing. Do 15-20 large crickets per day or a mix of Dubias & crickets or 5 superworms. He should be fed proteins twice a day till he reaches 1 year of age then feed once per day or once every other day. If U have been over feeding him more than def slow down to once per day on the proteins & lots of veggies/greens. After a year old or more u can feed proteins once per day or every other day but always the plate of fresh veggies and greens forever. Yes hope he gets better & if not, take him to the vet to test for fatty liver disease or anything else. And u are very welcome.

Back right leg is the main issue , there is a noticeable difference and it’s only on one foot , is this grout? I will be ordered a larger hide for him( other one is too small) and I’m using fake plants to make his hides a lot darker for him

This is the UVB light and positioning

Should I reposition it directly above rather than where it is now?
I’d also usually sprinkle the whole bag of crickets with calcium so I’ll stop doing that.
Tonight I’m going to get some greens into his diet immediately as well as a good bath, I hope he perks up tomorrow or I’ll take him to the vet.
thankyou for your help

 

[Skybug]

So its his front left leg and his back right leg? Correct? Could it be possible he sprained his leg? If you have high basking decor and hard tile , can u post a pic of his pores on the swollen leg? Id definitely take him to the vet if it was me.. I wouldn’t let it get anymore swollen.

 

[Zontar’s Mom]

yup I too would take him to the vet. Swollen limbs is not normal.

 

[Julee1971]

Back right leg is the main issue , there is a noticeable difference and it’s only on one foot , is this grout? I will be ordered a larger hide for him( other one is too small) and I’m using fake plants to make his hides a lot darker for him
View attachment 26337This is the UVB light and positioningView attachment 26339
Should I reposition it directly above rather than where it is now?
I’d also usually sprinkle the whole bag of crickets with calcium so I’ll stop doing that.
Tonight I’m going to get some greens into his diet immediately as well as a good bath, I hope he perks up tomorrow or I’ll take him to the vet.
thankyou for your help

The uvb light looks good I hope it starts at the hot side just make sure his hammock and basking are at least 10inches or more below the UVB. Also are u replacing the uvb every 6Mnths? If u don’t do this u will hurt the Beardie & he will suffer with MBD. U don’t need fake plants in his hide; he needs room to stretch out; at nite u turn off the lights? Correct? ; never ever leave lights on at nite only a 60 watt ceramic heat emitter if temp drops below 70 in the winter. As far as the leg, find a good reptile vet & take him in; Google and ask around. And yes never sprinkle the whole bag of crickets with calcium; only the ones that you are feeding him in that session cuz it’s once per day only; pour the 20 crickets or so in a big ziplock then sprinkle the calcium lightly & shake it then feed. For the next feeding on the same day; u can place the crickets in water so he dives for them & gets his water too, that’s what I do. Calcium is once per day only. The other crickets for the following day; u need to cut up a green or veggies & dump in the bag to keep them alive. As far as the baths; get the reptisafe & let him soak for 15min minimum in the bath; then pat him dry & place him under the heat lamp. Is he pooping everyday or every other day or every 2Days? If not then the temp mite be off or he has a parasite or bacteria. Do a fecal sample at the vet also, to see if he has anything going on in his tummy. Also do the recommended greens and veggies 2-3 of each per day in a plate & change them after 4Hours or so they get wilted amd some fruits twice a week blueberries an papaya as treats.

 

[Taiotai]

The uvb light looks good I hope it starts at the hot side just make sure his hammock and basking are at least 10inches or more below the UVB. Also are u replacing the uvb every 6Mnths? If u don’t do this u will hurt the Beardie & he will suffer with MBD. U don’t need fake plants in his hide; he needs room to stretch out; at nite u turn off the lights? Correct? ; never ever leave lights on at nite only a 60 watt ceramic heat emitter if temp drops below 70 in the winter. As far as the leg, find a good reptile vet & take him in; Google and ask around. And yes never sprinkle the whole bag of crickets with calcium; only the ones that you are feeding him in that session cuz it’s once per day only; pour the 20 crickets or so in a big ziplock then sprinkle the calcium lightly & shake it then feed. For the next feeding on the same day; u can place the crickets in water so he dives for them & gets his water too, that’s what I do. Calcium is once per day only. The other crickets for the following day; u need to cut up a green or veggies & dump in the bag to keep them alive. As far as the baths; get the reptisafe & let him soak for 15min minimum in the bath; then pat him dry & place him under the heat lamp. Is he pooping everyday or every other day or every 2Days? If not then the temp mite be off or he has a parasite or bacteria. Do a fecal sample at the vet also, to see if he has anything going on in his tummy. Also do the recommended greens and veggies 2-3 of each per day in a plate & change them after 4Hours or so they get wilted amd some fruits twice a week blueberries an papaya as treats.

The temperature is perfect , and I’m going to order a new UVB bulb and reflector incase it’s to do with that. I spray him with water 2X a day everyday and bath him at the weekends , I will try the crickets in the bath that sounds like a good idea. It’s been around a day and a half and he hasn’t shown any signs of getting better so I’m going to take him to the vet x thankyou for your help

 

[Taiotai]

So its his front left leg and his back right leg? Correct? Could it be possible he sprained his leg? If you have high basking decor and hard tile , can u post a pic of his pores on the swollen leg? Id definitely take him to the vet if it was me.. I wouldn’t let it get anymore swollen.

The vet (as you can imagine) is very off putting since I’m 17 and exotic vets are stupidly expensive , but I can’t let it get any worse knowing he’s in pain from this , thankyou all for your help )

 

[Skybug]

The vet (as you can imagine) is very off putting since I’m 17 and exotic vets are stupidly expensive , but I can’t let it get any worse knowing he’s in pain from this , thankyou all for your help )

I can understand that, especially if its a dude, please bring in a fresh stool sample , have them check for parasites/calcium crystals/do blood work etc , I know exotic vets are usually expensive but they are the ones with the equipment, you gotta advocate for your baby, dont leave the place without having your questions answered,, and if possible take notes, dont be anxiouss, you got this! Come back and tell us what the doc said ,

 

[Dexter_Dragon]

The vet (as you can imagine) is very off putting since I’m 17 and exotic vets are stupidly expensive , but I can’t let it get any worse knowing he’s in pain from this , thankyou all for your help )

Yeah, I'd suggest a vet as off putting as that is. Hopefully they can give you an anti-inflammatory if it is gout, give x-rays if it's injuries, etc. At least you'd know.

Knowing nothing about gout is this curable? Or is it something you manage with medication? Sorry, learning everything I can so as Dex ages I'm abreast of everything.

Keep us updated and hope it's nothing too serious.