How much substrate? ?

[DubFace]

Hey people, just a quick enquiry, how much substrate is enough? I currently have roughly an inch of substrate but I'm planning to clean and re arrange the Beards viv on Monday as I've got some time off work, so I was wondering what's best? Depth and variation of substrate level etc, any advice and views are very welcome!


@DubFaceKiller

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[Pat B]

What is your substrate and how old is your beardie?

 

[drgnfly2265]

I use a non-adhesive shelf liner. No mess and nothing to worry about when it comes to a chance of impaction or it getting into the beardies eyes.

 

[Pat B]

I use slate tiles from Lowes. Easy to clean up and looks good. I, personally, am gun shy of sand if you have a young beardie. Afraid of impaction. But, when Spike is full grown I may use sand....

 

[Daeyang]

Quote: An inch of substrate....
I believe he is using a sand..... If you are, take it out immediately please!!
It can cause impaction (if that is the word)
Use tile, shelf-liner, repti-carpet, newspaper, even paper towels.. but not sand

 

[Germ]

It is personal preference ... Strained Children's Washed Play Sand is fine for BDs 10+". At 4.5+ months, unsure if your BD would be that yet or not.

I have used it for over 10 years without issue of any kind, it is & has been my substrate of choice for all of my BDs larger than 10" long. Play Sand has been used very successfully by many, many keepers since the start of the hobby. This is not a recommendation, nor do I say that it is what you should use, there are many non particle alternative substrates out there as mentioned above, simply that it is my choice & if particle substrate is really desired, the only one that I would suggest. It is simply personal preference. But I will say that Play Sand can be quite dusty.

Clean Strained Children's Washed Play Sand has no binding agent, will not clump or stick together if ingested, unlike Calci-Sand. Play Sand separates when moistened, as it would be in the digestion process, it is tiny little pebbles that if accidentally ingested will pass right through a well hydrated BD without issue or discomfort.

Now, that being said, if you use unstrained sand, with larger pebbles in it, or gravel, that is a different story, that is not the 'Sand's' fault, that is just plain "Poor Husbandry".

My landscaping varies in depth from 1"- 6" which allows my BDs areas to dig around when they are in the mood.

Good Luck

 

[Vincent]

im glad you said that pat b tiles are awsome. 1) easy to clean 2) very safe(no impaction) 3) no sand dust (very bad to inhale) as pat said looks nice. the only down fall of using tile is that bearded dragons tend to smear the poop and sometimes it get on their belly, but i just clean the poop easy and if i see on my bearded dragons belly i just simply put them in the tub for a warm bath.

yes i see alot of people be lucky with sand, but i dont take the risk. and bearded dragons are considered new in the pet trade, so ya sand was use in the first place. now thier coming up with new subtract that works way better than sand.

 

[blackclaw83]

right now i am useing shelf liner on the bottom with paper towles ontop, when spazz is older i will be doing what Germ described. I like the looks of sand, and the cleaning aspect. Plus also as he stated, the digging. From what i read up on, db sometimes have a itch to dig. You should ask Mungi

 

[Mungi's Buddha]

Thought I would throw my two cents in the arena of substrate use once again
Firstly, I would agree with Germ in that it is a personal preference as to what you use. Slate tiles look nice and yes you can wipe them clean relatively easily...anyone having dealt with beardies for any length of time can however attest to the fact that cleaning smeared feces off your dragon is a lil more difficult...it also means bathing your dragon more than it really needs to be bathed. I only mention this because I dont believe that daily baths are necessarily a good thing for non-aquatic reptiles...a lil spritz of water yes but not soaks daily.
Lol...got off on a tangent there...please excuse
As most have seen Mungi's enclosure has sand as a substrate and we have experienced no ill effects from our decision to use the sand and in fact have seen only benefits.
It is important to realize that Mungi is an Adult Dragon of a lil over 2years of age and currently he is just over 17 inches in length. Im stating this because I think that using sand should only be an option to consider if your beardie is fully an adult and over 10 inches.
Use of particle substates with a juvenile or baby dragon is much like playin Russian Roulette with 4 bullets in your six-shooter...Do Not Pull That Trigger,Folks!
To address the concerns of Vincent as to dust from the sand I can tell you that if you are using good quailty meaning sifted, washed and properly prepared Childrens Play Sand then the dust issue is really a none issue. As much digging as Mungi does on a daily basis I have yet to see a dust cloud or a single dragon sneeze...and Mungi is monitored very closely at all times

Another benefit in using the playsand is that through his excavation Mungi is provided with exercise. It is my believe that regular stimulation and exercise is a key ingredient to a healthy creature of any sort. Beardies as well as other species can easily become bored and as a result lazy as they age so we try and look for was to keep them active. Mungi enjoys excavation as many dragons do so we provide him with as safe a means to do that as we can provide..the benefits are readily scene in Mungi's alert and happy character. That is also why yall have seen us place different new objects inside his enclosure from time to time..ie the blue ball, the buddha statue,etc...they spark his curiosity and a stimulated mind is a healthy mind.

I am.sure I have given you more information than you asked so I will stop here and in closing say this...
Washed, Fine Sifted, Clean Children's Play Sand that has been properly sterilized before placing in your enclosure is a safe and viable choice for your dragon as long as it is an Adult over 10 inches in length. Beware that all "playsand" is not equal even that produced by the same manufacturer..ie We use Quikrete Premium Playsand and only that bought at Lowes and only purchase the bags that are stored inside never the ones they keep outside.
When you bring it home first sift it to ensure there are no pebbles and then place it in a pan and heat it at 200 degrees in an oven for about an hour and then let it cool completely before using it in your dragon's lair. We use a 2-4 inch base in Mungi's Enclosre.
One final note if you choose to use sand...Watch your temps for a few days after introducin the sand...sand holds heat in. You may as we discovered have to change out your lighting and use lower wattage bulbs for basking etc...we for exaample had to drop down from 150 to 100 watt bulbs to keep the enclosure temp range and gradient correct and PLEASE FOLKS BUY THE DIGITAL THERMOMETERS WITH THE PROBES AND PLACE THEM CORRECTLY to ensure you are getting accurate info.
Enjoy The Day!



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[Vincent]

there is alot of people questioning sand on how a bearded dragon can be impacted. every subtrate is going to have a down fall to it. but for alot of people out there i have never seen a person in my life complain about having or i mean using tiles. people say about using sand is that all you have to do is sift the crap out of a sifter and then ur done. but people have to realize how much bacteria is in the sand, because let me tell you bacteria loves crap. and i dont know if you seen sand under a microscope , but it looks like pointy stars. and i would not want to digest that in my system. they get alot of excercize by gust running around chasing crickets, roaches and climbing logs/branches. tiles are a good choice to get. but obvisely people are all going to have their own opinion on the sand. i just want you all to think twice about choosing sand and looking up more info about it.

 

[Germ]

@ Vincent -- I would like you to show me 2 documented instances, proving without a doubt that Sand has caused impaction in the 30+ years that BDs have been Captive pets. I have yet to see one, that wasn't more likely a husbandry problem.

Why would you want something that holds humidity, the majority of us are trying to keep the humidity to a minimum, and your statement that tiles hold humidity is a bunch of crap, how can a dry solid, non porous object hold humidity? Get your facts straight. By the way BDs don't urinate.

It is great to have personal preferences, but I really challenge you to come up with any documented proof, that isn't more related to poor husbandry than the substrate itself.

 

[Vincent]

i want to but cant, i dont know how to do that

no your right about the humidity i dont know what i was thinking when i wrote that

 

[Germ]

Going to have to start quoting your stuff, seeing as how you go back & edit it out when called on it.

 

[Mungi's Buddha]

@Vincent...lol...you seem to be waging war on people.who use sand as a substrate having seen you post your WARNING in other threads..smh..I believe I began my previous post by sayin it is a personal preference one can make for them self...I also believe I stated that tiles were okay too if you so choose.

Just to clarify a few things...firstly as a matter of fact I have seen sand under a microscope and in fact an Electron Microscope..pretty amazing stuff truly but then again anything magnified hundreds or even thousands of time is and can make for truly spooky stuff..that being said I have seen pieces of tile magnified that had I not known.was a.simple piece of floor tile.I.would have thought I.was.looking a a photo of the Grand Canyon.

My point is this,Vincent...I do not believe in being an alarmist about any subject...every issue no matter what has its own pros and cons...

As far as sanitation wise bacteria growth as well as smell from an enclosure is purely a matter of good husbandry practices no mater what substrate you use in yout dragons enclosure...ie even if you were to put glazed ceramic tile in your enclosure unless you are cleaning up every single lil mess every single time with a stout disinfectant cleaner then surprise you cant kill off all bacteria...simply wiping up a poop with a paper towel still leaves a poopy bacteria filled mess even when it looks spotless...try looking at that under your magnifying glass and you will see...I have, my friend.

As for using sand and if proper and consistent husbandry practises are kept up then there is no more concern in its use than tile for and Adult Bearded Dragon.

The last thing that I want to.mention here is that you stated that tile helps keep humidity in your dragon's enclosure...as long as I.have been dealing with and researching bearded dragons I have never once come across anything that says these creatures need high humidity and I believe that being desert creatures there is no way humidity would be of concern for them and in fact humidity levels being raised in an enclosure will lead to bacteria and all sorts of nasty things that can in fact be of harm.to your dragon.

Please do not be a alarmist and spook people unnecessarily with facts that are not fully founded. It is simply not helpful.

Enjoy your evening!

Edit..lol..I type too slow...ninja'd by Germ..lol..great minds think alike


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[Vincent]

hey im just saying that tiles r a good choice. but if you really want sand i would go with play sand. germ has used it for years with no problem. im just say go safe

and your right it is a personal prefernce.... im not trying to start world war one all over again hahaha im just saying that tiles r a good choice. i mean their are alot of differnt types of subtrate u can use.

 

[Mungi's Buddha]

@Vincent loll:.peace treaty signed...world war averted...all parties agree that both substrates are viable and good..Alarm bells silenced...cannons withdrawn

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[Vincent]

hahahahahaha ya hahaha