Help educate me before I buy please.

[Daddyo1]

So Im about to get 2 bearded dragons from a local online classified ad. They will be for my daughter. So the name that they are described to be and then my researching it online sounds like something my Daughter would like. Being smoother and Im guessing Yellow.

The man describes them a 2
Dunner Bearded dragons, 1 LeatherBack and 1 Citrus.


What would you say they are?


Before I spend on 2 dragons that come with a 29 gallon cage/tank the same price I can get a 40 or even a 50 gallon tank for. And just buy her one or 2 normal Bearded dragons. I would appreciate any second third and forth opinions. Thanks you

 

[PatsyB]

I'm not the best on morphs and such but I believe with Dunners the scales go in a different direction on the beard...you can't see from these pictures. I would ask for more photos that are clear.

Whatever you get, just know they are solitary animals and shouldn't be kept in the same tank. Some people have had luck but I would say 9 out of 10 people have had some sort of aggression and one of the beardies has attacked and taken off limbs of the other one.

 

[mxw0rld]

Just like PatsyB said do not keep them in the same tank. It is not natural for them to be housed together. In the wild once they come out of the egg they are off on their own from day 1 never to know who their mom, dad or siblings are. They don't care. If an older beardie were to see them, even their mom they wouldn't see them as babies they would see them as food and eat them. If 2 males are together they can fight to the death, male and female together a male will have sex with the female so much so that it will cause her to not live as long. It's a dominance thing. 2 females can get along as long as they are the same age same size but there will always be a dominance thing between them. You will always have one getting the better basking spot and the most food. They will fight over the basking spot. One will always be bigger than the other as it's getting the better lights and more food. They might get along good for years but then one day you wake up and find one has missing toes or a tail nip or worse ……!

Please think about this as it is a lot of responsibility to take on a bearded dragon, let alone 2! They need proper UVA & UVB so with 2 of them you would need double the lights plus the food. The insects alone can get quite expensive. The fresh greens aren't so bad, those I can get pretty cheap. $3.00 for the organic mustard greens and it will last me almost 2 weeks so that's a good deal!

I would ask him why he can't keep them. If you want a morph there are quite a few breeders out there where you can pick out one of your choice and color. If morph is not a big deal to you then PetSmart or Petco are always a great place to get them as most of us on here got ours from PetSmart.

Bearded dragons require a lot of attention. They are the most gentle creatures around. Very loving and docile but again you have to put the time in to get that bond with them.

 

[Anthony Radford]

Dunners are a "high end" genetic morph, characterized by the stripe going down the back, bigger fingers, scale pattern, etc. Leatherbacks have smaller scales and feel smoother. That said:

DO NOT HOUSE MORE THAN ONE DRAGON TOGETHER IN THE SAME CAGE !!!!!! That will lead to aggression, and possibly even death of one of them. They are solitary animals. 2 females or a male and a female can fight, but 2 males WILL fight, quite possibly to the death. There are a lot of documentation and care guides on this.

You mentioned that your daughter 'might' like these. Please make sure of it first. Please be sure that you/she is willing and ready for a 10-15 yr commitment before getting them. They do grow to be around 2 feet long, and do require a lot of attention. They desire and long for human contact, very much like a needy lap dog/cat. Also be ready for dietary and veterinary needs. It's good to at least get them a check up with a specialized exotic or herp vet once a year. 29 gallon tank is ok for babies, but an adult will need no smaller than a 40 breeder sized tank. Plus make sure you have proper heat and lighting (UVA & UVB). This is VERY important.

Please don't think I'm trying to talk you out of getting them, just trying to let you know what you will need for them that one normally wouldn't consider at first. Beardies ARE a wonderful, loyal, LOVING pet! Very rewarding!

Another thing- advice from a pet store employee- is probably usually WRONG. Plus, their animals usually end up having worms, and typically have not been properly cared for.

Keep us informed on what you decide to do, and do not hesitate to ask any questions you come up with. We are here to give you the best advice we can give!

 

[Anthony Radford]

Also, Dunners are known to "hold" their food in the back of their throats when they eat, kind of like a pelican, as opposed to swallowing with each bite. Dunners are usually recommended for an experienced owners. Thus said, Dunners usually carry a higher price tag due to their genetics. They usually start around $100, but I've seen them in the $1000's.

Please be sure that you/she is willing and ready for a 10-15 yr commitment before getting them. Almost everyday I see ads on CL for adult dragons who's owners & kids don't want them anymore. Or I see adult dragons that are so skinny, lethargic, and malnourished simply because the owner lost interest and doesn't take care of them.

 

[Hdrydr31]

You've been given good advice here so far.. If you want to learn more about the care they need take a look at the links below several of our comments as we've put together general info on care for them that may help make your decision...
They are great creatures that given the time to bond are amazing additions to the family, most of us have multiple dragons and I know myself I wouldn't change it for the world they both have amazing personalities. The only thing that is hard is well keeping them separate I have a male and a female and even the easiest thing like bathtime I have to cover my males tank so he can't see her in the sink next to his tank... Or he gets all worked up black beards and destroys his tank wanting to get to her..

 

[Daddyo1]

Thanks everyone. I was not sure my ignorant question would have gotten so many replies. So Thank you.
I did not know about them holding their food half way down there throats. Thats interesting.

I know they cant be kept together. Which is why Im trying to come up with the best decision. This young man is selling both of them in a 29 gallon tank for the same price I can get a 40 - 55 gallon tank. The only difference is with his Dragons I will need 2 new cages in several months Im guessing. Or I just get a Large cage and a Normal pet store baby Dragon.

But with the chance my wife and daughter can have a fancy or Citrus colored dragon. And my wife being a real big kid and liking color. I wanted to see if anyone could see any of the treats he says they are or have.

My brother and I have grown up with reptile pets. from knowing the Monitor and Iguana not being tame enough for my wife and daughter. To having Beadeds as kids and chopping up there salad meals and crickets and different worms. I got the basics down. I even tested my wife and told her how we could raise our own Meal worms in a rubbermaid container. And she was fine with it if it saved money and was for their soon to be Bearded Dragon. Then I went further and told her we could breed them fancy Roaches. Her reply was, "When we get Lizzy, She better know I love her" hahaha

And as for the cages. Im just wondering if there really is Dunner or Citrus in these little guys or not. Because if not. I could save some cash and just get a big cage and a pet store baby Dragon. But at the same time, I like to breed. And my wife sid if she ended up with a Boy, Then I could breed. But if she ended up with a girl... "You men dont know how hard child birth is" So I would not be able to breed. and with Breeding I could see how the Dunner or Citrus or LeatherBack would make for a fun hobby.

 

[Daddyo1]

He sent me another picture. Because Im still at work. But it looks like he used a flash.

 

[mxw0rld]

It's hard to tell if they are true Dunner's - you would need to see papers and prominence. If you are wanting to breed to sell as I don't think you want 20 babies, you would need to start off with a true dunner from a breeder with papers. It would be hard to sell a dunner without papers.

You also can not keep these together at all. They would need to separated asap!

Also if you plan to breed to sell you might need a license to do that. Breeding is hard work and requires a lot of money, time, room and a lot of tanks. A lay box, incubator, etc. If you look at the bottom dollar from the initial investment with the feeders, lights, and the numerous other stuff, supplements, greens, decorations, hammock, leash, on and on times that by 2 then all the stuff you have to buy to house the eggs and then the feeders for the babies. It doesn't make much money in the long run. Newborn babies are fragile and you really have to know what you are doing. If this is just a hobby I personally would advise against it. I personally think these guys are over bred as it is. There are so many babies out there for sale right now. Just look on the Fauna classifieds here on Tapatalk and search dunner if that is really what you want.

Also mealworms are NOT a good staple for bearded dragons. They are HIGH in chitin and they can not digest that as well as other feeders. They are good as a treat.

 

[Hdrydr31]

Here is a good link to info on Dunners and leatherbacks.. And how to determine what they are when looking at them.
https://www.southtexasdragons.com/uploads/1/2/7/8/12783285/info_2013_dunner_morph.pdf
It is tempting to breed but it is ALOT of work and yes they are a bit over bred and if you can't prove in papers what the parents are it makes it pretty tough to sell. Personally if it's just a fun hobby I would pick something else to breed. If you want to make it a business then so be it but be prepared for all the work involved.
They are both very pretty dragon babies with good colors.. I do know that a few of us have gotten Fancy dragon's at Petco or Petsmart. Both of mine came from Petco as "Normals"
Depending on where you are look into raising your own Dubia Roach colony as once you get it up and going you won't have to buy them anymore and they are wonderful for them! If you go that route take a look at the link on general info as I wrote up how to raise your colony.. Now the only thing I buy are superworms, waxworms, butterworms, phoenix worms....My staples are dubia and supers. treats are the rest.. Greens/veggies I give a wide variety each week staple being collard, mustard, escorle, kale...and if they don't eat the greens/veggies I also feed what is leftover to the roaches and supers and well they eat them and my kiddos eat them..

 

[Daddyo1]

Here is a good link to info on Dunners and leatherbacks.. And how to determine what they are when looking at them.
https://www.southtexasdragons.com/uploads/1/2/7/8/12783285/info_2013_dunner_morph.pdf
It is tempting to breed but it is ALOT of work and yes they are a bit over bred and if you can't prove in papers what the parents are it makes it pretty tough to sell. Personally if it's just a fun hobby I would pick something else to breed. If you want to make it a business then so be it but be prepared for all the work involved.
They are both very pretty dragon babies with good colors.. I do know that a few of us have gotten Fancy dragon's at Petco or Petsmart. Both of mine came from Petco as "Normals"
Depending on where you are look into raising your own Dubia Roach colony as once you get it up and going you won't have to buy them anymore and they are wonderful for them! If you go that route take a look at the link on general info as I wrote up how to raise your colony.. Now the only thing I buy are superworms, waxworms, butterworms, phoenix worms....My staples are dubia and supers. treats are the rest.. Greens/veggies I give a wide variety each week staple being collard, mustard, escorle, kale...and if they don't eat the greens/veggies I also feed what is leftover to the roaches and supers and well they eat them and my kiddos eat them..

Not sure I do it for profit or business. More of just for experionce. We bread corn snakes when I was a young teen. Even our parents got into it. Tons of little rubbermaid containers, Flexwat tape, and we sold them for cheap. I like your idea with the roaches and the Dragons left over food. Wife said as long as the Roaches dont get too crazy out of control. She would allow it for her Dragon. Thanks for the feeding tips. Always good to learn new mixtures. The guy said he dot have any Repti-Calcium. he said its a debate for people that feed insects for its source of calcium. So Its always good to research and do whats best for our family pets. Right now Im trying to figure out if I want the expense of added cages. When my wife just wants one. But all she knows is what she sees. Im thinking Uneque. haha

We would never get into anything we could not handle. crickets, salads, worms and roaches. Sounds like a happy environment. haha

 

[Hdrydr31]

Not sure I do it for profit or business. More of just for experionce. We bread corn snakes when I was a young teen. Even our parents got into it. Tons of little rubbermaid containers, Flexwat tape, and we sold them for cheap. I like your idea with the roaches and the Dragons left over food. Wife said as long as the Roaches dont get too crazy out of control. She would allow it for her Dragon. Thanks for the feeding tips. Always good to learn new mixtures. The guy said he dot have any Repti-Calcium. he said its a debate for people that feed insects for its source of calcium. So Its always good to research and do whats best for our family pets. Right now Im trying to figure out if I want the expense of added cages. When my wife just wants one. But all she knows is what she sees. Im thinking Uneque. haha

We would never get into anything we could not handle. crickets, salads, worms and roaches. Sounds like a happy environment. haha

Another thing to think about is if you do get both and it's male and female and you are going to breed (and I'm not saying I agree with breeding) but have the 2 enclosures and only have them together to do the deed.. The process is very rough and if left the male will mate her literally to the point of exhaustion/death...The female will get bit it's possible body parts get nipped off, she can hold sperm for a year. Gravid females if not in good health/age have the added risk of getting egg bound which involves surgery, they can prolapse and take alot to replenish her calcium and supplies from laying eggs. Don't get me wrong a female that's never been around a male can and will lay eggs and will have the same possibilities.. However the risks increase when a pair is put together freq...
Not saying what you should do that's your decision just putting info out for you to digest