Desert Snow, Sani Chips?

[luissandoval87]

I was looking for alternative substrates for a new beardie enclosure. I'm currently using non-adhesive shelf lining and repti-carpet. My beardie is around 11-12 inches, so I was actually thinking sand, but I think it's gna be a pain to clean. I saw Desert Snow and Sani Chips as well as some other types of wood chips on lllreptile and was wondering if anyone's used them.
-Luis

 

[Augie]

I too was wondering if there are any loose-substrate options other than sand. My allergies are, to put it mildly, prolific and I doubt sand would help lessen the amount of sneezing I do around the house with 2 cats, a dog, and a massively growing den of roaches.

 

[Mungi's Buddha]

I would highly recommend that you steer clear of both the Desert Snow and Sani-Chips substrate as well as the majority of quote "Safe for Bearded Dragons" substrates that you will find out there. Desert Snow is actually a large particle substrate that is made from hardwood pulp and is specifically designed to clump. What that translates to when it is ingested by your dragon ( and he will ingest some) is that it will bind together in the digestive tract and therefor poses a high risk of causing impaction. Also any Calci-Sand should be on the NOT SAFE list as it poses a high impaction risk as well. Calci-Sand is marketed as safe saying that when it clumps in the digestive tract that it will be absorbed safely into the dragon's system but the truth is that it doesn't absorb fast enough to avoid impaction.
Excavator Sand is made to bind together too and poses high impaction risk.
Any type of large particulate substrate such a wood chips, walnut shell, wood shaving(mulch), etc are absolutely NOT Safe nor are gravel substrates.

If your dragon is 10+ inches in length from snout tip to tail tip then the only tried and proven safe particulate substrate you can use with confidence is Washed Sifted Children's Playsand. It has been used safely for decades by both breeders and keepers without instance. The difference in playsand is that when it gets wet it does not bind or clump but instead crumbles apart so instead of posing an impaction risk if ingested it will pass straight thru your dragon's system and out in his poop.
As far as dust goes any dust is very minimal with playsand and a simple daily sifting with a mesh pooper scooper is all that is required. I personally recommend Quikrete brand Premium Washed Sifted Childrens Playsand as it's the highest quality that I have used and I have tried all available at one time or another. It can be found a Lowes for about $4.00 per 50lb bag which is also much less expensive than "pet store reptile substrates". With proper maintenance you only have to change out the sand every 4-5 months.
The requirements for using it safely are again a dragon of 10+ inches snout tip to tail tip and that he be healthy and well hydrated. Sick or dehydrated dragons are more likely to ingest substrates.
Many people will try and argue that Children's playsand causes impaction but that is purely mis-information on their part and I have yet to find myself or have shown to me a single documented proof of impaction directly caused by it's use in the decades it has been used. It is perfectly safe.

There are also many non particulate substrate options to choose from too. Slate tile, non stick vinyl floor tiles to name a couple.

Enjoy!

 

[luissandoval87]

Yeah i've read a lot of discussions about this. I guess what I wanted was someone's experience with this. To be honest I am guilty of using excavator on one of my dragons and it's a bit different experiencing something than just reading. I kept a 12 inch dragon on it for close to about 4 months. I tried keeping a different dragon on it and immediately she began eating it, as soon as I became aware I had to move her to another enclosure. Play Sand is complicated. I've kept some leopard geckos on it and I think it's more difficult to clean and it gets everywhere. I guess for now I'll stick to the safe substrates. I don't dare to "experiment" myself with my loved ones. The only reason I had it before was due to lack of knowledge, but I can safely say that one of the variables of "working" substrates is the personality of the dragons themselves. Thanks for your input Mungi

 

[Mungi's Buddha]

...Play Sand is complicated....

Not really sure why you would say that playsand is complicated. Besides being perfectly safe for appropriately sized dragons, the maintenance is actually minimal. As I said earlier a simple sifting thru it with a mesh scoop to remove any fecal matter, urates or scattered leftover food once a day is all that is required.
You can provide the dragon with playsand from 2-6 inches deep giving him lots to dig in and the playsand doesn't have to be changed out but every 4-5 months.
To me that's far from complicated.
I do recommend that before initially using the playsand in the enclosure that it be re-sifted just to make sure there are no pebbles in it but that can be done easily too with a homemade sift made from some scrap board made into a small square frame with a piece of ordinary window screen stretched over it or even a piece of window screen inside an ordinary kitchen collander that can be bought at a dollar store on the real cheap.
After that initial re-sift I also recommend baking the sand in an oven at 225 degrees Fahrenheit for 30 minutes to kill off any mold or bacteria that may be in it and then letting it cool to room temp before putting it in the enclosure.
That whole process is cheap and not complicated at all and only has to be done once every 4-5 months when you change the sand.
As far as it "getting everywhere" it should stay in the enclosure without any issues.
Perhaps just me but playsand is perhaps one of the easiest substrates I know of for appropriately sized dragons.
Anyhow that is my view on it
Enjoy the weekend!

 

[Augie]

I liked your post, Buddha, but you're crushing my dreams, man! Just kidding... maybe I should try sand for a few months to see how Reggie likes it!

One other question: I'm a city boy. Where do you recommend storing the other 40 lbs of play sand I will have left over? The garage is a no-no for me.

 

[Mungi's Buddha]

I liked your post, Buddha, but you're crushing my dreams, man! Just kidding... maybe I should try sand for a few months to see how Reggie likes it!

One other question: I'm a city boy. Where do you recommend storing the other 40 lbs of play sand I will have left over? The garage is a no-no for me.

You will probably use more of the bag of playsand than you think depending on the size of your enclosure and how deep you make the substrate but if you have any left over what I do is double up a couple of garbage bags,tie it up and store it in a closet till my next change.
Also when you change over to playsand substrate you will want to monitor your enclosure temps for the first few days. Sand holds heat in and you may find it necessary to adjust your basking spot and/or perhaps may even find that you can use a lower wattage basking bulb to maintain correct temps.

Enjoy!

 

[luissandoval87]

I said sand is complicated because with my experience with leopard geckos it was everywhere. There was sand in all over the decor, all over the leos and all over their food and water dish. Anyways, that was just what I experienced. I did in fact enjoy the look it gave the enclosure...mmm...maybe i'll reconsider...

 

[Augie]

I forgot about its ability to hold heat... A 100 watt bulb does not generate enough heat and the 150 one I have gets the temps a little higher than I want. Maybe sand is the answer.

One last question: how easy is it to remove if it doesn't seem to work out and what is the best technique?

 

[luissandoval87]

I think it all depends. If you're using a glass breeder or anything similar like an aquarium then it shouldn't be too hard to remove it. However, if you have a custom background out of styrofoam/grout mix then it's a bit harder. When I would change it I would just remove the leos and place them in another enclosure, remove everything and just use deli cups to collect the sand and at the end just use a small brush to sweep everything out and finally rinse/wash the enclosure preferably with a bleach solution (I mean might as well).

 

[Mungi's Buddha]

One last question: how easy is it to remove if it doesn't seem to work out and what is the best technique?

Actually removal of sand substrate is extemely easy whether it's a permanent removal or a change out.
This is perhaps the best $25 bucks I have spent as far as tools for cleaning enclosures( and we have many...lol)

This is a shop-vac powerhead that attaches to a plastic "Homer Bucket" available at Home Depot although I am sure other places like Lowes have a similar set up. It's lightweight and makes quick work of the task of removing particulate substrates...takes only a couple of minutes to remove a 4-6 inch layer of playsand from a 40 gallon breeder tank and breaks down for easy storage too

Here's the Vac:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/202017...&productId=202017218&R=202017218#.UShHoqVqQ0I
And here is the bucket to use with it:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/100087...&productId=100087613&R=100087613#.UShrKKVqQ0I

Enjoy!!

 

[luissandoval87]

That is pretty awesome! I actually used sand in my enclosure after all so that is going to come in handy.
Thanks a lot Mungi

 

[Scottio]

I used beech chips and my beardie seemed to like it at first but then he'd never sleep on them and rarely sit anywhere near them. Stick to tiles, there's no need for sand!

 

[luissandoval87]

At first it was just purely for aesthetic reasons, but to be honest he really likes it. He runs around like crazy now and he'll usually dig around the corners. The only downfall really is that everything is covered in sand. The tracks for the sliding plexi glass is full of sand and the decor is full of sand. It's no biggie really it's just maybe 10-15 mins more of "cleaning".

 

[MadamDragon]

Thanks alot I am new to the bearded dragon world and have been racking my brain to what would be the BEST ground for her and I think I'm gonna give the child's playsand a try hopefully she will enjoy it. This feed really helped me.