Concerns about using Baytril- mouth rot w/ other concerns

[JayTheDragonTamer]

Long post warning- sorry
So my beardie, Spike, recently visited the vet for a check up and to address some possible (very early stage) yellow fungus and to get her opinion on his teeth.

I have heard so many horror stories about YF, so although I couldn’t verify if that’s what it is, I got some lamisil and got a vet appointment.

The vet said it could possibly be very early stage, but advised me to take less invasive measures first (raising temperatures- nighttime and cooler side, lowering humidity, stopping baths, and keeping the tank immaculately clean). If things progress, she will order a skin scraping. Her reservations about this were: 1)anesthetics are relatively high risk for reptiles 2) the areas would be difficult to get a sample from (under arms, possibly vent area) 3) Cost. Anesthetic+ Post op stay+ cost of actual procedure would already be a big bill, but unfortunately I also live on a small island, and the sample would have to be shipped off to be tested at another lab.

So I took the vets advice with the less invasive measures for the moment. But here’s the issue. He has what looks to be some kind of mouth rot or something. I was told by another keeper that they can get staining and buildup.. but I wasn’t convinced. The vet couldn’t get a good look and had to rely on some photos I had taken but agreed it looked like stomatitis, and prescribed Loxicom (for inflammation and pain) and Baytril as an antibiotic.

I have major concerns when it comes to Baytril as it’s notoriously harsh and I was very concerned with the idea of using an antibiotic on an animal that could possibly have YF. I have heard that’s dangerous. It could cause any YF to worsen. So.. I was so concerned with that risk that I didn’t take the Baytril only the Loxicom.

I’m not sure if that was a very wise choice. I’m starting to think I should do the antibiotics.. but then again I still have doubts. He’s just finished the 5 day course of Loxicom (0.26ml daily with food) and this is what I’ve found. His appetite has been really good. I wouldn’t have said he wasn’t eating much beforehand, because he has never really been very food motivated, but he has always been fussy, especially when it comes to salad. But these last couple days?? He downed his Dubia like a madman and what really shocked me is I found his bowl of salad had been munched on, frequently. In the past, I always had to put veggies in his mouth to get him to eat, or stand there and attempt to hand feed every piece (asides from his favorites which aren’t to be fed often- blueberries + mange tu).

As Loxicom doesn’t increase appetite, I definitely suspect he had uncomfort while eating. Now that the 5 day course is over, I don’t want that to come back. And after properly taking a look in his mouth today, I am starting to really have second thoughts about bypassing the Baytril. His teeth look pretty bad and his gums look abnormal. It just seems like classic mouth rot to me, which obviously would be treated with an oral antibiotic…

And I’ve also realized I’ve basically treated him for the pain and inflammation not treated the actual ailment, so I feel like a terrible reptile dad.

But I just can’t put aside my doubts. The possibility of YF freaks me out. It’s such a serious and fast spreading disease that I would not want to play around with weakening his immune system and causing it to take hold If I put him on an antibiotic. And there seems to be loads of stories from other users here who had bad complications from using Baytril specifically. I’m just not sure what to do.

I really would appreciate a second opinion or some advice from some of the members here. If I could get your thoughts on any of this that would be awesome. I can provide any information needed. Thanks

 

[JayTheDragonTamer]

This is a close up of his mouth and a normal bearded dragon for comparison.

 

[Skybug]

I dont have any experience with giving lizards meds so maybe someone more experienced in that will comment (but i do agree meds aren’t always the answer) , where were u concerned about YF on him? its although a very nasty illness its hard to get it (youd have to be giving the dragon pretty poor care for it start first off) i agree with keeping the humidity down, next bath time put some betadine in the water (betadine is an antifungal and antiseptic) as for his mouth its not mouth rot yet…so you can calm down on that, but he does have alot of Plaque buildup that can turn into mouth rot, mouth rot starts with yellow teeth, then brown with redish gums, then the teeth turn black and the gums get inflamed, after all that then usually mouth rot starts, i think you caught that in time too, unfortunately its pretty difficult to brush ur beardies teeth, I recommend cutting out any fruit for the time being (sugers are adding to it) he needs some really crunchy bugs , because that and some veggies actually clean their teeth, look for veggies that have “fine hairs” or that are kinda rough textured, you can start with that, but it may be worse that what can be fixed with just diet, SO…. Youll need a qtip with diluted betadine (1part to 4parts water) you dont want to much getting in his mouth, scrub half his teeth with it, get a clean qtip and do the other side, he’s gonna hate you after you do this so have his favorite foods on hand so you can give him a treat after…

 

[JayTheDragonTamer]

I dont have any experience with giving lizards meds so maybe someone more experienced in that will comment (but i do agree meds aren’t always the answer) , where were u concerned about YF on him? its although a very nasty illness its hard to get it (youd have to be giving the dragon pretty poor care for it start first off) i agree with keeping the humidity down, next bath time put some betadine in the water (betadine is an antifungal and antiseptic) as for his mouth its not mouth rot yet…so you can calm down on that, but he does have alot of Plaque buildup that can turn into mouth rot, mouth rot starts with yellow teeth, then brown with redish gums, then the teeth turn black and the gums get inflamed, after all that then usually mouth rot starts, i think you caught that in time too, unfortunately its pretty difficult to brush ur beardies teeth, I recommend cutting out any fruit for the time being (sugers are adding to it) he needs some really crunchy bugs , because that and some veggies actually clean their teeth, look for veggies that have “fine hairs” or that are kinda rough textured, you can start with that, but it may be worse that what can be fixed with just diet, SO…. Youll need a qtip with diluted betadine (1part to 4parts water) you dont want to much getting in his mouth, scrub half his teeth with it, get a clean qtip and do the other side, he’s gonna hate you after you do this so have his favorite foods on hand so you can give him a treat after…

Thanks so much for the reply that’s super helpful. I didn’t realize YF was hard to get, that’s kind of a relief.. maybe it’s not that. I’ve always kept his tank clean and had good husbandry so I did kind of wonder how that might happen. Good that it’s not mouth rot yet.. and now I know what to do I might be able to prevent it getting there. Ok, no more fruit. What counts as crunchy bugs? Would Dubai count as crunchy? I’ll look for rougher salads too, maybe even add one of those “salad toppers” made from dried flowers and leaves. I image that’s crunchy?
They don’t have betadine here, would Tamodine work?
thanks again,
-Jay

 

[Skybug]

Thanks so much for the reply that’s super helpful. I didn’t realize YF was hard to get, that’s kind of a relief.. maybe it’s not that. I’ve always kept his tank clean and had good husbandry so I did kind of wonder how that might happen. Good that it’s not mouth rot yet.. and now I know what to do I might be able to prevent it getting there. Ok, no more fruit. What counts as crunchy bugs? Would Dubai count as crunchy? I’ll look for rougher salads too, maybe even add one of those “salad toppers” made from dried flowers and leaves. I image that’s crunchy?
They don’t have betadine here, would Tamodine work?
thanks again,
-Jay

Yes roaches are good, but I would also Get some super worms and we’ll go from there, the adult beetle form of supers are really crunchy, you want hard exoskeleton , in certain applications , and for veggies certain dark leafy greens have texture you want, and fruit is okay maybe try other kinds other than blueberry, i know they’re probably ur dragons favorite , salad toppers would be very nice but idk if that would help or not its worth a try, and Yes Tamodine Would work just fine, someone on a snake forum uses it for all their reptiles n small animals,