An Intro and a sick baby dragon...[Help?]

[Jesseeka]

Hey all! I figured I would go straight to posting my intro and question in this topic; I'm hoping you all can help me with my newest addition...

TL;DR: I am taking care of a very sick baby bearded dragon, and need some help.

Well, I have suddenly entered into the world of bearded dragons as of yesterday. I work at a pet store as a dog trainer, and I also help take care of the animals there. The animals are always pretty healthy (and if not we take them to an exotic vet for help,) but we had a couple of baby beardies we received that were more lethargic and such from the start. We took them in, and the doctor said it was parasites (uncertain which one/s)

Long story short, we've been observing and trying to take care of the beardies for a few weeks now (they can't be very old.) Out of the two, one of them has grown and eats normally (crickets, some kale) but the smaller one has stayed very much the same.

The doctor didn't give any medication (as far as I know) so it's been us just trying to feed these little guys. My co-workers seem to have the mind set that he's going to pass away soon, but I just couldn't stand by and not do anything....SO HERE I AM. Haha.

---

I bought the Desert Kit (10g, two lights, etc.) just as a holding aquarium (he is only the size of about two quarters) and have been keeping it covered so that the heat doesn't escape. I have been making a slurry for him/her:
- 1 tsp chicken/veggie baby food,
- 1.5 tsp pedalyte,
- a small sprinkle of calcium dust,
- and maybe a crushed up cricket.

I warm it up slightly in the microwave, and then I have to open his mouth and give him it by syringe (I've been giving him increments of .05ml at a time- just a drop. Total maybe .1 or .15ml?)

I'm trying to keep the temperature at around 100 degrees, but I'm finding it a little hard (so I covered the tank and now it's doing better) I have a 10-20 g ZooMed heating pad on the side of the tank, and a 50W Heat lamp on top.

I also gave him a soak in lukewarm/warm water with a few table spoons of pedalyte in it.
---

My question is....help?! haha

Since everyone seemed to give up on him (doctor included I guess, since no medicine?) I wanted to know if I am doing things correctly.

I have heard that Reptaid is a good syrum to add for health?
Is the temperature correct?
Is baby food okay?


He is getting stronger (after me taking care of him more at work and feeding him regularly.)
He can hold up his head, but he often gets weak.
He does open his eyes on occasion, very rarely though.
He will squirm if I hold him, then settle down.
He does move about his cage, but only if he gets too warm/cold.

Oh gosh, I'm so sorry for a rambling first post! I am just not an expert at owning a beardie, and of course my bleeding heart needed to save this little dude.

PICTURES!

The tank (covered)

Simple Setup

Tiny little thing.

I call him Toothless.

 

[Jp]

Hey Jesseeka, no need to cover the enclosure, they need to be able to regulate their body temp & this is best achieved by providing them with an enclosure that has a Hot (95-105)& Cold (80-85) side. My recommendation is a 20 gal (minimum) per dragon. Are you housing them together? I've recommended baby foods (not microwaved) in the past to stimulate an appetite but a protein diet is very important for health & growth rate. 2-3 protein servings & 1 veg a day, calcium/vitamins 3-4 times a week. A UVB light is also needed, the Reptisun 10.0 is a very good choice. Also, give them warm baths ASAP to help aid in possible dehydration. 5-10 minute soaks are recommended a couple times a weeks to ensure dragons stay hydrated.

 

[Noella]

Hi. Beardeddragon.co has some generic bearded dragon medicines available. I would talk to Cheryl and get a second opinion from another vet. There's nothing wrong with giving him baby food to help boost his appetite. If there's parasites and they're overloading his system, he could become worse.

Reptaid's a good medicine to give him because it is an anti-parasitic, but in some cases, I've heard it doesn't work all the time.

Beardie bites from
http://www.petmountain.com/product/...17/nature-zone-bearded-dragon-baby-bites.html

or this:
http://www.amazon.com/Zilla-11864-Jump-Start-Supplement-4-Ounce-Bottle

Here's some other links:

http://www.petmountain.com/product/...rptivite-with-beta-carotene-multivitamin.html
http://www.petmountain.com/product/...ultrafine-powder-calcium-with-vitamin-d3.html
http://www.petmountain.com/product/...cal-ultrafine-calcium-without-vitamin-d3.html
http://www.petmountain.com/show_product/11442-504983

You can also buy a fixture from walmart to supply UVB into the tank. You can use command strips to hang the fixture inside the tank to give him UVB. Don't forget to take off the plastic because it does filter out the direct UVB he'll need. You'll need the 10.0 version and not the 5.0 version.

Keep doing what you're doing! Don't give up on him no matter what happens. The vet that didn't give him medicine shouldn't give up hope too soon because beardies are resilient reptiles. Good luck with him.

 

[Mungi's Buddha]

Actually his basking spot temp needs to be 110 degrees f with cool side temp of 80-85 degrees f. Babies need the higher basking spot temp in order to process food properly.
The problem you are going to have is that in a 10 g tank there is no way to get the proper temp gradient set up due to there not being enough room in the tank. That is why a 20 g Long tank is the minimum required for a baby or juvi dragon.
Your temps will need to be monitored with two digital probe thermometer...one probe mounted directly to the basking spot and the other mounted in the coolest section of the enclosure.
Analog thermometers are useless.
Unless you have a proper setup in a proper sized enclosure then you will be fighting a very uphill battle with little hope.
You really need to contact the vet and find out what specific parasites you are dealing with and what levels those parasites are at in order to determine how best to treat the lil fella.
I really do not recommend feeding chicken or animal protein such as in the baby food because these dragon's digestive system is not really set up to process them and feeding things like that puts excess stress on their system. Not a good idea for a creature that is already stressed.
These creatures are insect eaters so a better idea would be to crush or blend crickets to feed and if you want to make a syringe feed mixture use them with some squash baby food Stage One. You can also purchase some Repcal Juvi Beaded Dragon Pellets to crush and mix in the gruel which is a complete balanced diet in pellet form. To this you can add some Pedialyte. This mixture will be infinitely better than the chicken babyfood for him.
As far as the Reptaid I can attest to it being trully a miracle product and I have had it bring few of my creatures back quickly from the brink of death. I also use it as a once a month two day preventative booster for all of our reptiles. Reptaid should be in every keepers arsenal.
You will need to know your dragon's weight in grams in order to use the product and dose correctly. You can get a decent gram scale for about 20 bucks in the kitchen section at Walmart. A digital gram scale is another must have for reptile keepers because monitoring weights and watching out for rapid weight loss is sometimes the only clue we get that something is amiss especially with bearded dragons which are notorious for masking illness and injury.
Hope this helps and good luck with the lil one. I will watch for updates.

Edit..There is a whole lot more for you to learn about bearded dragons and properly caring for them and will post some very helpful links for you in a bit if one of the other mods or members hasn't already...I am on my mobile at the moment but will be back to my PC in a bit and can post them then.

 

[Mungi's Buddha]

Here are those links I promised you You should spend some time reading through these as there is a wealth of great and correct info in them on proper bearded dragon care. If you still have any more question don't hesitate for a moment to ask. This forum is chocked full of enthusiastic and experienced "Beardie Folk" that are here to help!

Basic BD Care Sheet-A Place to Start

Bearded Dragon Exclusive Care Library

Bearded Dragon Diet Nutritional Information

Bearded Dragon Co-Habitation-A Good Plan???

How To Sex A Bearded Dragon

 

[Mungi's Buddha]

...Reptaid's a good medicine to give him because it is an anti-parasitic, but in some cases, I've heard it doesn't work all the time....

When properly used you will not find a more beneficial or effective product out there. There has been a lot of time and research done by folks who truly do care about these creatures and reptiles in general to develop something that really does do what it says it will do and to give reptile keepers a quality product at their disposal to help combat out of control parasite issues (as well as RIs) without the use of harsh and potentially harmful medications as well as keep their reptilian pets' immune system boosted to prevent future outbreaks. It's a great product and I personally have had excellent results with it when used correctly and have not heard of any contradictory statements from other that have used it. In fact the majority of reptile folks that I know, when the subject is broached, will recommend it first and foremost as their go-to product when dealing with the issues it is designed to help with.

However there is a lot more involved when dealing with and correcting parasitic outbreaks than just using Reptaid or for that matter of fact using the common Vet prescribe medications too. A proper setup including proper temperatures and temperature gradients is key along with proper nutrition as well as is proper,consistent and thorough husbandry practices. When dealing with parasites extensive daily cleaning and disinfecting of the creatures enclosure is an absolute necessity and that includes the enclosure and all furnishings. The elimination of as much unnecessary further stress on the creature while they are ill is another important ingredient because stress is perhaps the number one cause of the majority of illnesses in most creatures to begin with. All these things in combination are needed if you want to have a chance of success and of eliminating reinfestations or more outbreaks in the future.

Again hope this helps and hope your lil dragon pulls through.

 

[Jesseeka]

Oh wow! First of all, thank you so much for all the helpful posts. I know that this is not going to be easy task (nor cheap, as I'm finding out.)

I will be investing in a 20g long tank, UVB/hood setup, Reptaid, and squash baby food within the next couple of days. I'll keep an update on how he's doing. I really want him to pull through!

My only thing that concerns me right now is that he will go limp from time to time after I feed him (syringe.) I have to kind of move him from hand to hand to get him to be active again? It's odd.

Though, once I put him down, he'll normally arch his head back up towards the heat source.

Also, I was so relieved because he had a decent bowel movement (the first in a few days actually). So that gives me some hope!

Thank you all so much for your help. <3

 

[Jesseeka]

I also let him sit in the sunshine on my leg. It's getting pretty warm/hot here in NC, so I figure some natural UVB light is better than none until then! haha

He really loved it and I could tell it made him more active.

Though, his breathing is very heavy (I can see his ribs go in and out when he does a deep breath)

I'm saving up some money to take him to the vet (a different one than before) so I can get a real prognosis. *sigh*

 

[Pat B]

You are to be commended for taking this sick little beardie into your home. This forum will give you good and solid information and yes they are not cheap. But once you have everything set in place the cost isn't too bad. He is so tiny and everyday he makes it is a day closer to being healthy. The temps and lighting are very important. A 20+ gal tank is almost a must. Hopefully the little guy is a fighter and with your care and concern he will become your best friend!! Keep us posted. Be very wary of asking for advice from a pet store....they will almost always steer you wrong. Good luck!!

 

[milo0]

I think younger bearded dragons breathe rapidly anyways, so I don't think you should be too concerned with that. I'm not sure how many of the others feel about this or if it's been mentioned, but you can try feeding him some soy yogurt. That helps with the beneficial bacteria and is recommended after they undergo parasite treatment. It seemed to help my guy a lot and he hasn't had a single parasite problem since. You don't have to do this but it wouldn't hurt. What I did since mine didn't eat it directly, is I just dipped a roach in the yogurt and fed it to him. You can do this with what ever you're feeding him too.
Hope he's doing well, and I'd love to see an update on his progress. Good luck

 

[Jesseeka]

Thank you all again for your kind words! I went on Saturday and bought him a 20g Long tank and returned the crappy starter kit I had gotten. I bought a nice UVB light board, a good basking light with dimmer switch, and a ceramic heater (my house stays pretty chilly, so I needed to combat the cold!)

I also picked up some good vegetable based baby food (Squash and Sweet Potato) as well as an apple one.

He is doing well! He has had at least one bowel movement each day (I try and soak him each day to get his tummy going) and he is propping himself up more. I believe his strength is coming back! He also has his eyes open more.

My open concerns right now are this:

- When I feed him (syringe) he goes limp after; he struggles and such like a healthy beardie before, but as soon as I give him a little he goes limp and I get scared that I killed him! I have to move him around from hand to hand and try to trun him over (just to I know he's alive, because he will flip himself over)

- Also, how much and how often should I be feeding him!?


I got my tank temperature at about 105 on the rock spot, and it goes down to about 80-85 in the other end (digital thermometer, yay!) He seems to love hanging out in the warmth.

It's a simple set up, but what do you think? Am I doing this right?

<3

*edit* and yes, I did clean the poop up after I took this, haha.

 

[Germ]

A screen top is needed to secure your BD, once it becomes a little healthier. BDs are prolific jumpers & very accomplished escape artists. Glad to see 4he larger more suitable sized enclosure.

What is the second smaller dome fixture on the right used for?

Good Luck

 

[Jesseeka]

I definitely plan on getting a lid for him, but he's still so weak. Once I see him more active I will cover him up )

The second dome is a ceramic heat emitter. It is set on low, and keeps the other side in the comfy 80s. I am going to remove it when I don't have to keep my AC so low (I usually am too warm, and it's too humid to open the windows, haha)

I'm happy that I'm doing things better; it's definitely a learning process!

do you have any suggestions for how often I should feed him?

 

[river-7]

Hi: Good for the baby being taken by you. I would feed 3-4-small meals a day and if he eats that increase as he goe's good but don't force him to eat that much-only what he is capable of eating.He will let you know-I think your'e doing a wonderful thing for the baby and keep it up-and if you have any concerns please ask as we have been there before. I personally am dealing with a baby that was fed bread and that's it-if he was lucky. And not fed at all- River-7-aka-bella

 

[Pat B]

I can't tell for sure in your picture but is your UVB in the front on the bottom of the tank?? It should be mounted on the inside of the tank if you can so the rays come from above. I see a 'reflection'? but not sure if it is a UVB fixture. While he is tiny I would try to feed him 3 times a day. The 'rule of thumb' is feed him whatever he will eat with a 10 minute time frame. Don't forget greens....hopefully he eat them. Good luck....