Silkworms?

[James34780]

I can't seem to find much information about using silkworms as a staple diet. So pretty much, i'm looking for as much information as anyone can give me. Pros and cons. Where to get them. How to raise/culture them. Silkworms vs crickets. All that kinda stuff. Thank you for any information you provide!

P.S. New member

 

[Ozzie&Dino]

Silkworms Should only be used as a treat because they are fattning and you cannot gutload them ( Germ Please do not tell me you can gutload them LMAO!) WELCOME

 

[Germ]

@Yuki'sMom: We feed silkworms prior to offering them to our BDs, therefore we can 'Gutload' them.

You seem to have all other worms confused with Phoenix worms, Reptiworms or Calci-worms (Different breeder's names for the same insect, the maggot\larvae of the Black Soldier Fly) that are not fed, so can not be gutloaded. Your intentions appear to be in the right place, but please be sure of your facts prior to offering advice\info. Even when corrected, inaccurate info can stick in peoples minds & continue to be spread.

To the OP ...

Silkworms have a similar nutritional content to Crickets, although they have a better calcium to phosphorus ratio, they still must be dusted with Calcium ...

Here is an article providing a good explanation to give an understanding on the Calcium to Phosphorous & Fat to Protien ratio that is included in one of the links below...

The main points to look out for are the fat content and the Ca: P ratio.​

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Ca: P Ratio and Reptiles​

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Many have heard about the Ca/P ratio but not many understand what it means to your reptiles. The Ca: P ratio is simply the ratio of Calcium compared to Phosphorus and so a Ca: P ratio of 1 (one or 1:1) would mean that Calcium & Phosphorus are found in equal quantities, a Ca: P ratio of 0.5 (half or 0.5:1) means that there is half the amount of Calcium than there is Phosphorus. An ideal Ca: P ratio would be around 2 (two or 2:1) as this will allow calcium to be easily absorbed.​

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So why is this important? It has to do with the way Calcium is absorbed by your reptile's intestine. For any calcium to be absorbed, there needs to be at least equal quantities of Calcium and Phosphorus in their food. If the Phosphorus is much higher, then not only will it prevent calcium being absorbed, but may even leach calcium that is already present in your reptile's body. This can lead to serious problems such as MBD (Metabolic Bone Disease). When Calcium and Phosphorus are dissolved in equal quantities, it forms an insoluble salt (Calcium Phosphate) which is very difficult to absorb by your reptile's intestine. If there is a large amount of phosphorus compared to the calcium, then all the calcium will be bound by the phosphorus and none will be available for your reptile. If there is a large excess of calcium, then no phosphorus can be absorbed, which is also a vital mineral but not needed in as large a quantity as calcium. Ideally the Ca/P ratio for most vertebrates is around 2 (also written as 2:1).​

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Fat vs Protein​

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Another thing to look out for is the amount of fat compared to protein. Fat contains twice as many calories as protein, but doesn't provide any of the nutritional benefits that are gained from proteins from their amino acids which are essential for the health of any living creature. The calories from fat are often called "empty calories" in dietary terminology. Most insectivorous reptiles will receive greater benefit from a high protein/low fat diet.​

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Source - http://www.leedspetshops.co.uk

But when feeding worms of any kind as the staple diet, in my experience, generally BDs will become 'Worm Spoiled' & refuse to eat anything else. BDs should have some variety in their diet, it may be okay to use Silkworms as a frequent treat, but I would not recommend using them as their staple diet.

You did not mention how old your BD is or how long you have had it ...
So here are a few good links that may be helpful ...

Basic BD Care Sheet - A Place To Start

Bearded Dragon --- Exclusive Care Info Library

Beautiful Dragons Nutrition Chart

Is Bearded Dragon Co-habitation a good plan?

How To Sex A Bearded Dragon


Good Luck

 

[Ozzie&Dino]

Are you talking about mulberry leaves and or silkworm chow? That is all mine are fed and to me I consider gutloading with fruits and veggies and I have never since I have owned my Chameleon fed silkworms fruits and veggies?

 

[Germ]

Gutloading is feeding the feeders as high a protein & as nutritious a diet as is possible to feed the particular feeder and fed off soon enough to the animal while it is still in the feeder's full stomach\gut. We can't gutload feeders with something that they won't eat, so 'gutloads' vary with each individual feeder. Fruits & veggies generally are more in the way of a source of hydration as they are mostly water, very little protein. Feeding our BDs a water capsule in the form of a worm, does not make them a very nutritious feeder. This is to say, that while it is fine to feed some greens to the feeders for hydration, greens are not really a great 'gutload'.

Live Prey is offered to our critters to provide for their protein needs, Greens serve to provide hydration. When BDs are young, their diet consists more of live prey than greens, because they require the protein to grow, not as big of a body to hydrate. Once they are older, adults & their growth has slowed to a dull roar, they are not as active, not as much live prey is needed because their protein needs are less. They always need hydration, more when older because they have a larger body to hydrate. This is why pretty much a constant supply fresh greens should always be made available to them, in amounts relative to their size at all ages.

 

[James34780]

Oh yea I probably should have mentioned the size of my Beardie. Shes about 10 inches and around 4 months. I just ordered her and have had her a couple days. I ordered 1000 crickets already and they should be in tomorrow. I was just trying to decide what is best. I've had crickets planned out for a long time, but I recently started wondering about silkworms, which is why I asked.

 

[Ozzie&Dino]

Ok Thanks Germ that does make total sense.

 

[Pat B]

How are you going to keep 1000 crickets alive? Just curious because I might buy 30 from Petsmart and at 10 or so end up dying!! Such a waste!!

 

[Ozzie&Dino]

I bought 1000 one time from Ghanns Cricket for my Chameleon and I would say 75% of them died....what a waste! I do not ship in Crickets anymore, shipping cost is killer! I did just get 150 Dubia Roaches off Ebay and they were $20.50 free shipping. Nice big fat and healthy looking Dubia too.

 

[Pat B]

Roaches creep me out!! I live in Columbia SC and we have these HUGE palmetto bugs. I will have to try what you did and get them off Ebay....maybe!!

 

[James34780]

Well the grand total for 1000 of them was 25$ and I got them at a really small size so i'm hoping they can last 3-4 weeks but I dunno. Trial and error type deal, best way to learn. I'm honestly probably going to go to Dubias. Got the crickets in today. Biggest pain in my buns.