Natural Brumation

[Justus85]

yea its repti sun. Bought it on the sites link to pet mountain

 

[li]

Great...the glo isn't a good choice, but the sun is. Not sure if you have the caresheet, but here is a link.
http://www.mybeardie.com/general_information.php

Having a spot of 115* is okay, but never higher and always make sure that there is a good variance between that at the highest point in the tank down to a cooler spot in the 100's then over to about 80* in the cool end.

 

[ladyknite]

Fantastic Post Francis! Full of great information.

Justus
Although Francis’s post is right on the money, and true in fact, your situation falls somewhere in between. I would not rely on this information to serve your purpose just yet. It’s not out of the question, but you need to examine things closer before you make that assumption without prior experience.

After re-reading ALL your posts on Rex, there are several continuous factors, and several inconsistencies that exist, making brumation not a logical alternative here. Although a primary fecal was ran, your problem from early ownership still exists. To my understanding, Rex is approximately 13 inches, and he’s growing, apparently, just not eating well. Your description of his feeding/eating habits is up and down to say the least. If you want the full knowledge and opinions of the experience of this forum, please clarify.



first time poster, and new beardie owner. So i have a question regarding food supplements. My beardie's name is Rex and he seems to be doing just fine. I buy bulk pinheads for him/her(juvenile dragon, gender unknown hehe) and Rex eats a lot.
You estimated Rex to be 3-4 weeks old.—July 14. On August 26 you estimated him to be 5-6 months. Sorry, but I’m a math major
http://mybeardie.com/bearded-dragon-forum/bearded-dragon-health/supplements/msg27882/#msg27882


I gave my baby beardie some mealies just to vary his diet a little and afterwards he started rubbing his nose against his little branch and spitting up a little.—July 19
http://mybeardie.com/bearded-dragon...rd-behavior-after-new-food/msg28243/#msg28243


While I'm on the topic of his behavior. I've seen a sudden surge in his appetite. I thought it'd be more gradual. His stool size and food intake have doubled. I don't know if I should associate this with his increased uvb or not. Plus he looks kinda fat, lol. I would assume as long as I limit his feeding to 10 minutes this should be ok. Vet checked him 3 days ago, no stowaways.—July 29



http://mybeardie.com/bearded-dragon-forum/general-discussion/milestone-for-rex/msg29804/#msg29804 --That is calcium sand. August 5


he stares at it for a split second then demands out of the feeding container
He ignores his crickets which is the only staple I have available
http://mybeardie.com/bearded-dragon...npredictable-eating-habits/msg29899/#msg29899


August 13 Changed out calcium sand
http://mybeardie.com/bearded-dragon-forum/beardie-pictures/no-more-sand-for-me!!!!!!/msg30307/#msg30307


Rex has had a diminished appetite for a little while now. I was hoping it was part of his shed cycle but it has continued.
i got rex all those expensive feeders but it hasnt changed anything he just runs from his food and shows fleeting interest in it.—August 19
http://mybeardie.com/bearded-dragon...-appetite-and-stress-marks/msg30796/#msg30796

I'm sure after re-reading this, you'll understand my concern, confusion and drive to be sure you understand what you see. it's not all black and white.

 

[Justus85]

It has been up and down Gina. I have been pretty consistent in my feeding methods. There were just a number of factors I wasn't considering at times I showed concern for Rex. Like shedding affecting his appetite etc. I think an excess amount of movement close to his tank may have been stressing him out. That is why I gave him his more secluded closet setup. And since then he has been eating like a hog. Still a bit lazy but maybe thats simply just his personality. So I'd defintely have to agree that brumation was not the culprit.

 

[ladyknite]

I realize you indicate that you are trying several different feeders, as well as trying to improve the methods to promote his eating. I need you to realize that I see things somewhat out of sorts. Ya gotta trust me here.

Can you clear up the inconsistencies and give us a clear cut picture. Lets start from the beginning.
List your set up and husbandry
Feeding prey items--amount/how many times per day
Are you still attempting feeding in a seperate container?
Greens--He's young......but is he trying anything?
His approximate age/weight/ and length

Do you have a copy of the vet fecal report?

 

[Justus85]

Ok here is the whole shebang:

tank dimensions 31x13x13
green repti carpet substrate
24 inch reptisun 10.0 uvb
basking spot 110-115
cool end 80
two feedings a day with salad available all day
feeders consist of: dubia's crix, and silk worms
approximate intake 12-15 1/2 inch crix per feeding, slightly less on the roaches cuz they are a tad bit bigger
one feeding a day dusted with repti cal for 5 days, 2 days one feeding with herptivite
have moved feeding to his viv as he got uncomfortable with the separate container
he eats greens fairly often
approx. age 5-6 months weight i dont know length close to 14 inches
i could get a copy of the vet fecal but all it will tell you is that he is clear of protozoa and other parasites.

 

[ladyknite]

It sounds like the feeding in a separate container was your biggest issue. But you have others as well.

A 14 inch dragon shouldn't live in a 13 inch wide space.
Ideally I should assume that your temperatures are text book.
Here's where I'm still confused...............................is he eating 12-15 bugs per feeding or 12-15 crix plus 12-15 roaches plus 12-15 silks twice a day?

Also, in July you spoke of him being 3-4 weeks old and small. How did you come up with a 5-6 month age only 1 month later? This makes a huge difference in his behavior, but if his growth is outweighing his age, you may need to provide him with something else. The reverse is also true.


And finally................If it is a true laboratory report, it will tell me much more than that.

 

[Justus85]

I am still unsure about the age because he came from Petco. Any amount of months old I say he is could be off, recently based on his eating habits I made an assumption that he was older than I thought; but still we can never know for sure. He eats the 12-15 feeders two times a day, 12-15 at each feeding. I can ask the herp vet if he has a lab report. All he did was take a sample go in the back and return 10 minutes later with the good news it was clear. I am aware he has pretty much outgrown the enclosure and am setting up a 40 gallon right now, waiting for a new uvb. I am leaving his old tank intact for a new arrival.

 

[ladyknite]

Glad to hear you've prepared for a larger enclosure.

I saw you make a comment at one point about Working smarter......not harder. Good thought. Smarter is to assume he's younger and treat him accordingly. Older would be to reduce his calcium and vitamin intake in a few short months which could cause a younger dragon more harm than good.

Here's the thing about most vets. When they examine fecals, unless they see exoskeleton slough (basically parasitic shed) from growing or adult parasites, they don't record "EGGS" from parasites a viable infection. Within the time that most people are confused as to why they're not seeing this huge change in behavior, parasites have hatched and reached adult stages to multiply. I've seen it happen time and time again.
So seriously, if you observe oddities in his behavior or feeding that you're not comfortable with, for whatever reason, now is the time to bring those out.

 

[Justus85]

Maybe a second fecal is in order. The vet did suggest a second bigger sample seeing as how smaller stool sizes can hide a small percentage of parasites. Hehe another notch on the to-do list. Fortunately i got the vet visit out of the way, 60 buck not too bad but this fecal is only 20

 

[crystal9534]

my boys are in the process of being treated for pinworms. they've had 2 doses of panacur. they're starting to slow down a bit. what needs to be done?

 

[zebraflavencs]

See them completely clear of the pins.. this usually means a months time.. Are you by chance using a pro biotic ? That will help.
After that.. reevaluate.
Hope this helps.

 

[crystal9534]

no, no probiotics.

 

[zebraflavencs]

Ah... try that... pro biotics will maintain the gut floras that are good while the meds do the job eliminating the pins.

 

[crystal9534]

where would i find something like that?

 

[crypticdragons]

where would i find something like that?

Beautiful Dragons carries Accidophliz which is a good probiotic
http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Meds.html

 

[crystal9534]

i can't get anything like that locally? i don't have a problem buying online, but figured the sooner the better, ya know?

 

[crypticdragons]

i can't get anything like that locally? i don't have a problem buying online, but figured the sooner the better, ya know?

You can use Soy yogurt (never used it personally) but the acidophliz would probably be the best bet.

You may be able to get a product called Benebac at a pet store which is a probiotic used in birds. But I do not know how good it is either.

 

[zebraflavencs]

Walmart in my area does have the cap form.. I would open the cap, sprinkle roaches lightly, less than half the cap.. daily, for the duration of the medication.
Hope this helps.. Oh.. it is in the supplement part by the pharmacy.

 

[crystal9534]

alright, i just bought some online. better to have the sure thing than try something i'm not sure about. thanks guys