Italian, US smoothie, microscale leatherbacks

[luissandoval87]

I just wanted to see if anyone can provide me with some information or a link to understand the differences between these leatherbacks. I know Italian Leatherbacks are codom, and I think US smoothies are recessive??? I'm not sure. I also just discovered microscales who are supposed to have less and smaller side and crown spikes than Italian leatherbacks. I'm interested because I have a leatherback who I acquired from craigslist from someone who could no longer provide for him. I asked the previous owner about his bloodline, but he said he purchased him from petsmart; who's bearded dragons are quite suprising sometimes...
Anyways, I attached some pictures of him so you guys can see him
I just want to understand this morph a little more

 

[gilliesexotics]

Just my views on the subject.

You will drive yourself crazy and will read different stories Truly without knowing the breeders stock, you wont know exactly what you have. I can tell you this. I have seen dragons labeled american and some labeled itailian that look exactly the same on the back. Truly they should just label them in two categories 1. reduced scale leather back and 2. micro scale leather back. Reduced scale have few tubercles as your dragon has above. A micro scale will not have any raised scales.

Any combination bred together will produce silk backs and either bred to a normal will produce leather backs. The truth is even within the group not all will be reduced or micro (you sometimes get a mix) unless you breed with a silk. From my limited experience of breeding from one female silk. All of the offspring produced that are leatherback are micro scaled.


I have never seen a recessive leather o r atleast i dont think i have to give any advice. So far in my experience it is either a visual or not. I have yet to see a true visual of the disorder "leather back" not be co dom. Now, i have produced some that i had a hard time telling if it is a leather back or not. As, they are so borderline being normal or leather back its crazy. Im wondering if these might be the ones they call recessive. When this disorder isnt blatant it is het imo. I think breeders have found a sneaky way to put a higher price tag on some animals To me the same can be had with people labeling there dragons a "tiger" morph.

 

[luissandoval87]

If you don't mind me asking, what did you breed the female silkback with? Are they hard to breed? I've seen online pictures of bearded dragons breeding and the males will usually bite the females crown spikes or head spikes and then proceed to breed, but the silkbacks don't have any, I just wondered if it was harder to breed them...
I googled recessive leatherback bearded dragon and the only thing I found was that they look the same as any other bearded dragon, but they have to be bred with other recessive leatherbacks to produce leatherbacks, otherwise their offspring will be Hets. I guess they kind of just define the recessive traits...
And I would have to agree with you wholeheartedly. Breeders try too hard to come up with some extravagant labels to attach to their dragons to raise up the prices. Which is another reason I'm trying to learn as much as I can about the different morphs. Unfortunately, the information is pretty much scattered and many breeders will contradict each other regarding various morphs. I have yet to find a book written about bearded dragon biology and genetics. I could go on and on, but I think I'm just rambling haha.
As always, thanks for your quick response
-Luis

 

[gilliesexotics]

I breed her with several different types of males. Although males can be rough, she has not received any wounds. The males also dont seem to have a problem finding a spot to grab onto either.

 

[luissandoval87]

Cool. I wish I could be a breeder
Too bad I don't have enough time, money and knowledge
maybe in another life

 

[SpikeDragon714]

I just got a new little girl from a local reptile store. She was a lookalike to my boy, with just as sweet a personality and I couldn't leave without her. I have a question I'm hoping you can help me with @gilliesexotics. She was labeled a HET Hypo Leatherback Silky and I was told to make sure to soak and lotion her every day (using any non-scented lotion). I wanted to make sure the directions I was given were really the best care though because I've also been previously told by this store a few things for care advice that I later learned were not ideal for dragons. I hadn't really seem many pics of silkies so I took her word for it that she's a silky but after reading more about them and viewing pics it sounds like they should have zero scales and spikes on them and she definitely has more of the micro scales and some spikes. I've read the HET means that it can just be a gene that is carried but not seen, but I'm wondering if there even is such a thing as a Leatherback Silky or if she might just be what you refer to above as a micro scale. I'm including pics so you can see what she looks like. It doesn't really matter to me what she is, she's a doll and I'm totally taken with her, but I want to make sure I provide her with the care she needs. I'm wondering if she should be getting bi-daily soaks or if the twice a week soak I do with my other guys with misting daily is okay and if I should lotion her still? Also, is un-scented lotion really okay? I was told something like lubraderm or an unscented for sensitive skin like that but I keep coconut oil in the house and have noticed it's in many ingredients used for reptile care and am wondering if that would be better? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I've been reading through all the message boards but finally decided to just ask an expert!

 

[DanielE]

Silky dragons are the super morph that can occur by crossing two leatherbacks. They do not have scales and do need specialized care. But what you have is a leatherback and should not require the extra work. At least from my understanding of it. So I would not worry about the lotion. Some baths are good though for any Dragon so if you want to give one every few days or even every other that would be ok.

He/she is a beautiful Dragon though.

 

[SpikeDragon714]

Silky dragons are the super morph that can occur by crossing two leatherbacks. They do not have scales and do need specialized care. But what you have is a leatherback and should not require the extra work. At least from my understanding of it. So I would not worry about the lotion. Some baths are good though for any Dragon so if you want to give one every few days or even every other that would be ok.

He/she is a beautiful Dragon though.

Thank you so much for your help! I really appreciate it!