Very angry little ladies!

[CWI GUY]

Hello, all
My name is Shane and I am new to the forum. Recently, I have encountered a huge change in attitude from my two juvenile females. As babies they were cohabbed together for around 8 months without issue. About a month ago, Puff my gray dragon, decided she didn't want a roommate anymore and started attacking Spyro, my red dragon, constantly. I bought another tank and duplicated the setup. Now both lizards are constantly agitated with big black beards and always head bobbing, at everything! I thought they would be happier with more space but it seems to have had an opposite affect. I've tried a few things like blocking their view of each other and adding someplace to hide with no improvement of attitude. When I take them out individually and give them free roam, they seem to calm down. As soon as they go back into the tank it is instant attitude. Any imput would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks in advance...

 

[Sadie]

Hello, all
My name is Shane and I am new to the forum. Recently, I have encountered a huge change in attitude from my two juvenile females. As babies they were cohabbed together for around 8 months without issue. About a month ago, Puff my gray dragon, decided she didn't want a roommate anymore and started attacking Spyro, my red dragon, constantly. I bought another tank and duplicated the setup. Now both lizards are constantly agitated with big black beards and always head bobbing, at everything! I thought they would be happier with more space but it seems to have had an opposite affect. I've tried a few things like blocking their view of each other and adding someplace to hide with no improvement of attitude. When I take them out individually and give them free roam, they seem to calm down. As soon as they go back into the tank it is instant attitude. Any imput would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks in advance...

Welcome to the forum shane

Dragons are never to be kept together -- they are territorial and one will dominate the other one- please go over the surface basking temps and uvb coil or long tube fixture - temps should be taken w/ a digital probe thermometer-and coils are a hazard to their health-- once lighting has been gone over then we can move onto other things that would cause the behavior your getting -- you may haft to move one of them out of the room- your sure they are both female?

 

[Josh]

Welcome to the forum!

 

[CWI GUY]

Welcome to the forum shane

Dragons are never to be kept together -- they are territorial and one will dominate the other one- please go over the surface basking temps and uvb coil or long tube fixture - temps should be taken w/ a digital probe thermometer-and coils are a hazard to their health-- once lighting has been gone over then we can move onto other things that would cause the behavior your getting -- you may haft to move one of them out of the room- your sure they are both female?

In the beginning I read that females can be together if they aren't aggressive towards each other. Males never together. Apparently that was bad info. I have read a lot of post in the forum and need to replace my coils with linear bulbs. Doing that this weekend. Heat lights are the white bulbs (80w) with a little bit of orange/yellow tint. Thinking I need to replace these with white. Basking temps checked with digital probe stays at around 90 to 95 now. Was around 100 when they were babies. I have one in each window so each one gets 6 or so hours of natural sunlight in the whole tank. Their cool side sits around 70 to 80 depending on the time of day. They both have a single bump going from hip to hip at the base of their tails. I believe they are both female. No dual bumps going along the tail sides. I travel for a living so they are in my rv. Putting one in another room isn't an option, but I can at least block the view of each other. I've tried this for a couple days and no difference. However, if this line of sight is causing the aggression I can definitely come up with a permanent solution. At the moment they are in 20 gallon starter tanks and will be getting the custom enclosures within the next month. I have to build them to fit the area. I wish the pet store I bought them at was more knowledgeable or I did more research first and I would have only bought one. Went in looking for a docile traveling buddy and thought they could keep each other company while I was working. I love them both though!

 

[CWI GUY]

Welcome to the forum!

Thank you

 

[Sadie]

In the beginning I read that females can be together if they aren't aggressive towards each other. Males never together. Apparently that was bad info. I have read a lot of post in the forum and need to replace my coils with linear bulbs. Doing that this weekend. Heat lights are the white bulbs (80w) with a little bit of orange/yellow tint. Thinking I need to replace these with white. Basking temps checked with digital probe stays at around 90 to 95 now. Was around 100 when they were babies. I have one in each window so each one gets 6 or so hours of natural sunlight in the whole tank. Their cool side sits around 70 to 80 depending on the time of day. They both have a single bump going from hip to hip at the base of their tails. I believe they are both female. No dual bumps going along the tail sides. I travel for a living so they are in my rv. Putting one in another room isn't an option, but I can at least block the view of each other. I've tried this for a couple days and no difference. However, if this line of sight is causing the aggression I can definitely come up with a permanent solution. At the moment they are in 20 gallon starter tanks and will be getting the custom enclosures within the next month. I have to build them to fit the area. I wish the pet store I bought them at was more knowledgeable or I did more research first and I would have only bought one. Went in looking for a docile traveling buddy and thought they could keep each other company while I was working. I love them both though!

Not all uvb's are good ones- depending on the size of the tanks your going to will determine bulbs you need- windows are good for viewing not for uvb the glass filters uvb rays-- a 4x2x2 is recommended for full size dragons- you want a solid clear bright white basking bulb-- no off white no yellowish no daytime bulbs and no colored at all- flukers basking exo Terra intense or Arcadia halogens -- two digital probe thermometers - 80ish cool side during the day 65-75 night time temps-

 

[CWI GUY]

Not all uvb's are good ones- depending on the size of the tanks your going to will determine bulbs you need- windows are good for viewing not for uvb the glass filters uvb rays-- a 4x2x2 is recommended for full size dragons- you want a solid clear bright white basking bulb-- no off white no yellowish no daytime bulbs and no colored at all- flukers basking exo Terra intense or Arcadia halogens -- two digital probe thermometers - 80ish cool side during the day 65-75 night time temps-

Thank you. I am going shopping this weekend for lighting. Going to start the enclosure build next week. Looking at around 4' deep, 6' long, and 2.5' tall. Should be big enough where I don't have to build another one later. I bought the reptile starter kits for both and now realize everything about them is wrong. At least for beardies...No worries, all will be addressed and hopefully my ladies will be happy again! Thanks again, I will send update photos as the habitats progress.

 

[Sadie]

Thank you. I am going shopping this weekend for lighting. Going to start the enclosure build next week. Looking at around 4' deep, 6' long, and 2.5' tall. Should be big enough where I don't have to build another one later. I bought the reptile starter kits for both and now realize everything about them is wrong. At least for beardies...No worries, all will be addressed and hopefully my ladies will be happy again! Thanks again, I will send update photos as the habitats progress.

Make sure your getting good UVB's these are crucial ---- you want either a Zoo Med -- w/ a Reptisun 10.0 T 5 -- or a Arcadia Pro T 5 12% bulb 24 watt -- or a Sunblaster Nano Tech w/ the Reptisun 10.0 T 5 bulb ---

 

[CWI GUY]

Make sure your getting good UVB's these are crucial ---- you want either a Zoo Med -- w/ a Reptisun 10.0 T 5 -- or a Arcadia Pro T 5 12% bulb 24 watt -- or a Sunblaster Nano Tech w/ the Reptisun 10.0 T 5 bulb ---

OK, thank you for the specifics. I will definitely hunt these down!!! Thanks again!

 

[Sadie]

OK, thank you for the specifics. I will definitely hunt these down!!! Thanks again!

If you need links please ask

 

[CWI GUY]

If you need links please ask

Can these be found at your average pet depot or only online? If they are not commonly stocked in stores, then yes, I would love the links!

 

[Sadie]

Can these be found at your average pet depot or only online? If they are not commonly stocked in stores, then yes, I would love the links!

Every pet store is different - PetSmart carries the Arcadia pro T 5

 

[CWI GUY]

She's happy for a bit!

 

[CWI GUY]

Update: moved the enclosures away from the windows. Now that they cannot see outside all day, they both have calmed waaaaay down. They each get their turn to run free everyday, and seem to go straight to the big window. As soon as they look outside it is black beard and head bob city! The whole problem was the window. The ladies are much happier, I think they were on edge looking at the birds, lizards, and other wildlife running around.

 

[Sadie]

Update: moved the enclosures away from the windows. Now that they cannot see outside all day, they both have calmed waaaaay down. They each get their turn to run free everyday, and seem to go straight to the big window. As soon as they look outside it is black beard and head bob city! The whole problem was the window. The ladies are much happier, I think they were on edge looking at the birds, lizards, and other wildlife running around.

Did you get a good UVB?

 

[CWI GUY]

Did you get a good UVB?

That wasn't the reason they were agitated. I came to the forum for a possible solution to calm my ladies down. Instead, I received a almost bot like response... UV? Heat? Probe type? It wasnt just me either. Almost all questions asked in the forumb received the same response. None if which were the actual issue I was trying to resolve. Sure, I could have changed the light and watched them continue to beat their face off the wall until they were bruised. Ask.com was able to connect me with a reptile vet and expert to pinpoint the issue and the solution worked. They are both happy and healthy again. Once I finish the enclosure, I will put bigger lights. I wasn't going to buy lights and then need to buy different lights in a couple weeks. Again, that wasn't why they were acting out, it was the windows irritating them.

 

[Yvonne G]

Well, I'm glad you were able to find the solution, however, we're going in blind. We need answers to the basic questions in order to rule out the most common mistakes keepers make.

 

[CWI GUY]

Well, I'm glad you were able to find the solution, however, we're going in blind. We need answers to the basic questions in order to rule out the most common mistakes keepers make.

That's understandable. The first couple of responses were going in the right direction, then gut hung up on lighting. Almost as if the issue at hand isn't important until these other things are addressed. Meanwhile, my ladies were injuring themselves against the wall of the enclosure. I know lighting is very important and I have done research to ensure their new enclosures are as beneficial and comforting as possible. They will have lots of room, good uv and heat bulbs, propper substrate, and variety to keep them engaged and active. My comment is geared towards when their stress level goes from almost nonexistent to self destruction practically overnight, I don't think the lighting was the trigger. I tried to be as descriptive as possible to hone in on the issue and remedy. Just a bit frustrating when trying to figure out the cause of stress, and kind of led in the complete wrong direction. Essentially, I would have changed the equipment and still had the same problem. I apologize if this comes off as complaining, I do appreciate the interaction of the forum. I just felt like going to a forum would have been a bit more circumstantial driven rather than scripted...