Temperature help please

[Astonio]

Hi everyone,

I was hoping i could get a bit of advise please? I have recently built my beardy a background and basking platform of which i have attached a picture of. It was my first attempt at anything remotely DIY so I'm quite happy with it but if i could do it again there is a couple of things id do slightly different.
I have a couple of questions regarding temps, I have done mega amounts of research but always feel like I'm doing something wrong.
I currently have a thermometer probe and the dimmer probe floating between the basking bulb and the platform, which can be seen in the close up picture of the platform.
I also have a temp gun which I use to get the surface temps around the enclosure. The surface of the basking platform seems to get hot pretty quickly and can be tough to manage. I wish from the start I made this platform closer to the ground to get a better distance away from the bulb to make temp adjustments easier to control.
So if someone would be so kind to share their wisdom with me please the questions I have are:
1. What temp should the surface temp of the basking platform be with the temp gun?
2. What temp should the thermometer probe read?
3. Which, if either, of the two temp should I focus more on controlling? for example, if i try to get the probe to read 38 degrees Celsius the surface temp goes waaaay up!

For added info, the viv is 4x2x2, with a T5 UVB bulb attached to the roof. The thermometer probe in the cool end consistently reads 26 degrees Celsius, the humidity thingymabob is currently at 20% and there is a 50 watt CHE for keeping it warm at night.

I am open to any criticism of the setup as its for the best of the special boy!

Thank you so much in advance!

 

[Josh]

Welcome to the forum!
Nice enclosure. I would trust whichever device is more accurate. In this case, probably the temp gun. Use the probe for the other side of the enclosure or not at all. Seems like in this case too much data may be a bad thing. Unless you have reason to suspect your thermometers are faulty just trust whichever one is higher quality and/or calibratable as it's probably more accurate.

 

[Astonio]

Welcome to the forum!
Nice enclosure. I would trust whichever device is more accurate. In this case, probably the temp gun. Use the probe for the other side of the enclosure or not at all. Seems like in this case too much data may be a bad thing. Unless you have reason to suspect your thermometers are faulty just trust whichever one is higher quality and/or calibratable as it's probably more accurate.

Hi Josh,
Thanks for the welcome, reply and information.
Would you mind telling me what temp you would have the surface temp of the basking platform at please, min and max if possible please? Because the platform seems to absorb heat a lot, i feel like the air temp in the warm end might not be getting high enough, so if you could just clarify for me what surface and air temps you would be happy with please that would be super helpful.
I worry all the time that i may not get something right which will cause my boy harm and I would hate to put him through that!
Thanks again!

 

[Josh]

Pick one parameter. You don't need to worry about air temp AND surface temp.
Surface temp on the basking area should be 95 +/- about 5 degrees fahrenheit.

 

[Sadie]

I haft to differ w/ Josh the best for getting the basking surface temps is the digital probe thermometer- IR guns will give off false temps depending on what the decor is made out of - the probe will not do that - please go by what the probe is telling you -- IR guns cannot read off hammocks as well - it looks like from the pic the dragon is not sitting under that heat bulb - has he been sitting under it at all and for how long? You need to follow his behavior - if hes not sitting under it there is a issue

 

[Astonio]

I haft to differ w/ Josh the best for getting the basking surface temps is the digital probe thermometer- IR guns will give off false temps depending on what the decor is made out of - the probe will not do that - please go by what the probe is telling you -- IR guns cannot read off hammocks as well - it looks like from the pic the dragon is not sitting under that heat bulb - has he been sitting under it at all and for how long? You need to follow his behavior - if hes not sitting under it there is a issue

Hi Sadie, Thanks for your input. The basking platform is polystyrene which i have coated in tile grout, painted with acrylic paints and then coated with a sealant, its also quite dark so absorbs heat, whilst at times i have felt like the IR temp gun readings seem a tad high for how i think the surface has felt, there were times where i could personally feel that it was getting very hot! but what could be very hot to me might not be so hot for the dragon so i don't know.

With regards to him not being under the bulb in the picture, I had actually just put him back in from having him out the viv and had just placed him where he is. I have tried to follow his behavior to determine if what I'm doing is correct but there is no consistency in it and i cant quite figure it out.
Could i ask what you would do with this set up please? where would you place the temp probe for the basking spot and what reading would you aim for it to be at please?

Thanks again

 

[Sadie]

Hi Sadie, Thanks for your input. The basking platform is polystyrene which i have coated in tile grout, painted with acrylic paints and then coated with a sealant, its also quite dark so absorbs heat, whilst at times i have felt like the IR temp gun readings seem a tad high for how i think the surface has felt, there were times where i could personally feel that it was getting very hot! but what could be very hot to me might not be so hot for the dragon so i don't know.

With regards to him not being under the bulb in the picture, I had actually just put him back in from having him out the viv and had just placed him where he is. I have tried to follow his behavior to determine if what I'm doing is correct but there is no consistency in it and i cant quite figure it out.
Could i ask what you would do with this set up please? where would you place the temp probe for the basking spot and what reading would you aim for it to be at please?

Thanks again

Place it where he sits wait 10 minutes then get the temp -- hes an adult I would shoot for a temp of 95-100- most adult dragons do not like real hot temps of over a 100--- if your getting too high of temps w/ the probe its going to be more accurate I would raise the heat bulb or take the platform out and put a piece of decor in there that he can pick the temp he likes to bask at --- something like a piece of decor that gives him different places to sit stand lay on or lay against - here is a example of what I am talking about this piece you can lay in the tank different ways

https://www.petsmart.com/reptile/habitats-and-decor/habitat-decor/thrive-driftwood-reptile-decor-54734.html?cgid=500116

I use this piece in my two tanks and my dragons love it - they use it many different ways - I have the big long stick piece laying on the floor of the tank w/ the big trunk part under the basking light - they sit on that first thing in the morning to warm up then use it different ways during the day -

 

[Sadie]

You can also go w/ a lower wattage bulb if its too hot --- but I would consider getting it raised as well or lower the basking decor piece if its running to hot -- its up to you --- the decor piece in there now is not permanent is it?

 

[Josh]

Definitely a learning curve to each device. And there's definitely more than one way to brush a cat

 

[Sadie]

here is some info from a friend thats busy working on a page of the IR guns to me I cant really understand the mumbo jumbo but it tells me to not completely trust the IR gun and have a digital probe thermometer on hand so thats my opinion I do use the IR gun as well but I also have digital probes
Emissivity is the term used for how an object emits energy as thermal radiation. And like mentioned, different objects have different emissivity values. This is what causes one of our major problems with this type of thermometer. Most IR temp guns come calibrated to a set emissivity value (from here on referred to as Evalue), usually 0.9-0.95. These values cover a wide range of materials, but as you might imagine, they also leave out a lot of materials. For instance, asphalt has an Evalue of 0.93. So the average IR gun would read asphalts surface temperature fairly reliably. But sand has an Evalue of 0.76, sandstone 0.59. And granite has an Evalue of 0.45. This would mean your IR temp gun would be useless on those materials, as the Evalue is much out of range, your readings will be off too. So, the only way to get around this is 1 of two options. You only use items in your tank that fit the Evalue of your IR temp gun, or you buy an IR temp gun with an adjustable Evalue setting. You will have to make sure when you buy one that it states it has adjustable emissivity levels. If this is the case, then you need to make sure you know what the surfaces are you are measuring, and look them up on an emissivity chart. From there you can adjust your thermometer and you should be getting very accurate readings.
So in conclusion, IR temp guns can be very accurate, but only if they are used properly. And unfortunately, that is what makes them not user friendly in my opinion

 

[Astonio]

You can also go w/ a lower wattage bulb if its too hot --- but I would consider getting it raised as well or lower the basking decor piece if its running to hot -- its up to you --- the decor piece in there now is not permanent is it?

Unfortunately i cannot move the platform, its built into the background which is all one big piece. it took me a while to make so ideally would like to use it. When i made it i severely underestimated how high it would be. Also the light unit is as high as it will go. The link you posted for the decor says i do not have access to it, possibly location restrictions.
If i was to make the decor again i would simply just make the background and would purchase some decor for basking.

So if i just lay the thermometer probe on the platform and aim for the 95-100 mark that should be good?
Its currently night so all the lights are off but i will test in the morning and report back with the results.

Thanks again for yours and everyone else's help.

 

[Sadie]

Unfortunately i cannot move the platform, its built into the background which is all one big piece. it took me a while to make so ideally would like to use it. When i made it i severely underestimated how high it would be. Also the light unit is as high as it will go. The link you posted for the decor says i do not have access to it, possibly location restrictions.
If i was to make the decor again i would simply just make the background and would purchase some decor for basking.

So if i just lay the thermometer probe on the platform and aim for the 95-100 mark that should be good?
Its currently night so all the lights are off but i will test in the morning and report back with the results.

Thanks again for yours and everyone else's help.

Yes that is the downfall w/ permanent fixtures- I often recommend when people say they are making things in their tanks not to make those fixtures permanent to avoid issues like this- try all the ways I recommended and see if you can get it to those temps w/ out having to tear the whole thing down again-- make sure you let that probe sit after the bulb has had time to get heated up

 

[Astonio]

Yes that is the downfall w/ permanent fixtures- I often recommend when people say they are making things in their tanks not to make those fixtures permanent to avoid issues like this- try all the ways I recommended and see if you can get it to those temps w/ out having to tear the whole thing down again-- make sure you let that probe sit after the bulb has had time to get heated up

Hi Sadie,
I made a few adjustments, moved the light fixture to sit above some bark instead of the platform and moved the temp probe to sit above the bark also. with a 60 watt bulb i am getting a reading of a pretty constant 36 degrees Celsius (roughly 97f). I have put in a picture below with the changes. does this seem good to you please?

Thank you very much

 

[Sadie]

Hi Sadie,
I made a few adjustments, moved the light fixture to sit above some bark instead of the platform and moved the temp probe to sit above the bark also. with a 60 watt bulb i am getting a reading of a pretty constant 36 degrees Celsius (roughly 97f). I have put in a picture below with the changes. does this seem good to you please?

Thank you very much

As long as he's sitting there to bask your good-- keep an eye on the poop if you see any undigested insects the temp would not be high enough but I am thinking it is at 97- watch his behavior

 

[Astonio]

As long as he's sitting there to bask your good-- keep an eye on the poop if you see any undigested insects the temp would not be high enough but I am thinking it is at 97- watch his behavior

I will do, thanks again!

 

[Sadie]

I will do, thanks again!

Your welcome