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Gut loading vs dusting

desmith0927

Bearded Dragon Egg
Messages
25
Ok so there’s SO much conflicting/misinformation out there I’m just not 100% sure what to do. My Elliot is between 3-4 months old. I had some issues at first as far as not eating and such but I got proper lighting, a 40 gallon terrarium, and dubias/BSFL. Elliot LOVES it all. I offer a salad of various mustard greens as well as carrot tops with a few herb greens thrown in and squash. Tiny bit of fruit for dressing. He doesn’t touch it but I don’t really expect him to yet. That’s not my question but I know people ask those questions in response to nutrition threads a lot so i figured I’d provide it.
Anyhow, I got a calcium supplement that is both d3 and phosphorus free. On top of that, I got the Zilla with Beto Carotene spray multivitamin. I know I do not need to dust the bsfl with calcium. I also know that I’m supposed to dust feeder with calcium 4-5 days a week and use a multivitamin the days I do not use calcium. 2-3 days a week.
HOWEVER, Elliot does not seem to want to eat the roaches when they are dusted. And he doesn’t seem to want to eat anything I spray. Even when I let it dry out for quite some time and switch it to a new bowl so there’s no residual dried vitamin that he can see on the bottom of the bowl because... GOD FORBID!!
I’m wondering if there is a way to gutload the dubias so that I would not have to dust them. Then at least if I only have to worry about the multivitamin twice a week it’ll be way less of a stressor. Or even if there’s a way to gut load them with enough of the calcium and multivitamin containing things he needs that only feeding them would be enough. If I have to dust, then I have to. He will eat them if he gets hungry enough but he’ll go from eating 2-3 times a day to only once and a small amount when something is on them. I’ve been so proud of him being such a good eater lately. He would eat the crickets with the calcium plus d3 banana flavored stuff but I now know not to use that and he won’t eat crickets at all anymore.
 

Sadie

Bearded Dragon Veteran
3 Year Member
1,000+ Post Club
Messages
10,692
Ok so there’s SO much conflicting/misinformation out there I’m just not 100% sure what to do. My Elliot is between 3-4 months old. I had some issues at first as far as not eating and such but I got proper lighting, a 40 gallon terrarium, and dubias/BSFL. Elliot LOVES it all. I offer a salad of various mustard greens as well as carrot tops with a few herb greens thrown in and squash. Tiny bit of fruit for dressing. He doesn’t touch it but I don’t really expect him to yet. That’s not my question but I know people ask those questions in response to nutrition threads a lot so i figured I’d provide it.
Anyhow, I got a calcium supplement that is both d3 and phosphorus free. On top of that, I got the Zilla with Beto Carotene spray multivitamin. I know I do not need to dust the bsfl with calcium. I also know that I’m supposed to dust feeder with calcium 4-5 days a week and use a multivitamin the days I do not use calcium. 2-3 days a week.
HOWEVER, Elliot does not seem to want to eat the roaches when they are dusted. And he doesn’t seem to want to eat anything I spray. Even when I let it dry out for quite some time and switch it to a new bowl so there’s no residual dried vitamin that he can see on the bottom of the bowl because... GOD FORBID!!
I’m wondering if there is a way to gutload the dubias so that I would not have to dust them. Then at least if I only have to worry about the multivitamin twice a week it’ll be way less of a stressor. Or even if there’s a way to gut load them with enough of the calcium and multivitamin containing things he needs that only feeding them would be enough. If I have to dust, then I have to. He will eat them if he gets hungry enough but he’ll go from eating 2-3 times a day to only once and a small amount when something is on them. I’ve been so proud of him being such a good eater lately. He would eat the crickets with the calcium plus d3 banana flavored stuff but I now know not to use that and he won’t eat crickets at all anymore.
There is liquid calcium I am going to ask some others I know how to get calcium in him -- I will get back w/ you
 

AlvinVab

Bearded Dragon Egg
Messages
11
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Dexter_Dragon

Bearded Dragon Veteran
Messages
783
Ok so there’s SO much conflicting/misinformation out there I’m just not 100% sure what to do. My Elliot is between 3-4 months old. I had some issues at first as far as not eating and such but I got proper lighting, a 40 gallon terrarium, and dubias/BSFL. Elliot LOVES it all. I offer a salad of various mustard greens as well as carrot tops with a few herb greens thrown in and squash. Tiny bit of fruit for dressing. He doesn’t touch it but I don’t really expect him to yet. That’s not my question but I know people ask those questions in response to nutrition threads a lot so i figured I’d provide it.
Anyhow, I got a calcium supplement that is both d3 and phosphorus free. On top of that, I got the Zilla with Beto Carotene spray multivitamin. I know I do not need to dust the bsfl with calcium. I also know that I’m supposed to dust feeder with calcium 4-5 days a week and use a multivitamin the days I do not use calcium. 2-3 days a week.
HOWEVER, Elliot does not seem to want to eat the roaches when they are dusted. And he doesn’t seem to want to eat anything I spray. Even when I let it dry out for quite some time and switch it to a new bowl so there’s no residual dried vitamin that he can see on the bottom of the bowl because... GOD FORBID!!
I’m wondering if there is a way to gutload the dubias so that I would not have to dust them. Then at least if I only have to worry about the multivitamin twice a week it’ll be way less of a stressor. Or even if there’s a way to gut load them with enough of the calcium and multivitamin containing things he needs that only feeding them would be enough. If I have to dust, then I have to. He will eat them if he gets hungry enough but he’ll go from eating 2-3 times a day to only once and a small amount when something is on them. I’ve been so proud of him being such a good eater lately. He would eat the crickets with the calcium plus d3 banana flavored stuff but I now know not to use that and he won’t eat crickets at all anymore.
I feeling ya on the not eating dusted bugs. Dex won't touch them. Not even the strawberry and banana flavored ones. lol Now that he's eating his salads (finally) I've discovered that he will eat his dusted salads as long as it's very light. As a work around, to ensure he's getting enough calcium and vitamins, I mix up a syringe full of baby food veges and a bit of calcium and give him a dose in the early afternoons. For his vitamins I give him a small syringe every 3rd day of an acceptable fruit (kinda like a treat). He'll eat most of what's in the syringe before he turns his head away to say he's had enough. Bonus is, he doesn't seem to realize the calcium and vitamins are in the veges and fruit. Ha-ha trick him, yup I do. lol

I'm not sure how gut-loading the bugs would be? Good question. Would it be enough to give them what they need? Interested to know that as well.
 

desmith0927

Bearded Dragon Egg
Messages
25
So am I. No one has really answered that for me. He actually is so freakin obsessed with the dubias now, I can dust them with the plain, non flavored calcium and he eats them no matter what. As long as it’s not on them in chunks or piles in his dish. And as long as I spray the roaches with vitamins in a separate container, allow the spray enough time to fully dry, then transfer them to his dish and there’s no trace of the spray on his bowl anywhere, he doesn’t seem to notice. My only worry now is whether or not just spraying one meal of roaches a day, 2-3 times a week with a coating of multivitamin is enough for him. The dosing seems impossible to know this way. He seems a lot healthier than he was and growing like crazy but still... idk
 

HoomanSlave

Bearded Dragon Veteran
3 Year Member
Messages
691
Location
Hogwarts
So am I. No one has really answered that for me. He actually is so freakin obsessed with the dubias now, I can dust them with the plain, non flavored calcium and he eats them no matter what. As long as it’s not on them in chunks or piles in his dish. And as long as I spray the roaches with vitamins in a separate container, allow the spray enough time to fully dry, then transfer them to his dish and there’s no trace of the spray on his bowl anywhere, he doesn’t seem to notice. My only worry now is whether or not just spraying one meal of roaches a day, 2-3 times a week with a coating of multivitamin is enough for him. The dosing seems impossible to know this way. He seems a lot healthier than he was and growing like crazy but still... idk
Look for the highest calcium roach food you can find to make up for what he isn't getting, and keep feeding the BSFL.
Dubias have a 1:1 calcium-to-phosphorus ratio, which means they need to be dusted under normal circumstances. I think you could get away without dusting with phosphorus-free calcium roach food, calcium water cubes, and by staying away from any foods high in phosphorus except as very infrequent treats.

I recall reading somewhere that dubias convert excessive calcium from food into an acid-type substance that can be harmful. I'll have to fact check that, though.
 
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