Keeping Dubias without a colony

[hilabeanz]

Hey everyone,

New to the forum but have been lurking, soaking up as much general information as possible. Wonderful site!!

I am in the homework phase of adding a beardie friend to the family. This will be our first foray into the world of reptiles and we're beyond excited. As I get my ducks in a row, I know I want to offer dubias as my main protein source, with various recommended worms here and there for variety. My beardie will be in the 4-5 month age range when I receive him. I am loathe to start a roach colony! Maybe once I get used to the repulsiveness of them I will change my mind, but I don't even know if 1 beardie eater justifies the start of a colony. I feel like it will be overkill, especially as his protein diet tapers with age.

Questions:

• Is it doable to just get size-appropriate dubias on an as-needed basis and keep them in a Kritter Keeper for 2-3 weeks at a time?
  
• What is the best way to keep a good supply of Phoenix worms and Silk worms on hand?
  
• Can these types of worms be refrigerated?

Many thanks in advance!

Hilary

 

[PatsyB]

I can't keep a colony in my apartment. We have a basement but the electricity is just so old that I am afraid to leave a heat source on 24/7 for them. I think a critter keeper would be too small to keep them in because you need to provide them with food and places to hide. I keep mine in a 10 gallon breeder tank with a one of those metal lids that provides ventilation. I put egg crate in so they have plenty of places to hide and I provide a water source, dry food and greens. They last a pretty long time and they don't smell or breed.

Phoenix worms can be refrigerated, in fact that's how they sell them in the store. If you don't keep them cool, they will turn into flies. Silk worms shouldn't be refrigerated and they usually come in a cup with food in it. I find that silk worms grow slower than hornworms though so you may be able to keep them for a few weeks before they get too big to feed your beardie.

Small super worms are another option for you. They can be kept in the plastic container you buy them in or you can put them in a plastic shoe box with some sort of ventilation and a few inches of ether wheat bran or oats. As long as you don't get the substrate wet, they don't usually smell.

The only worms that can be refrigerated are BSFL which is your phoenix/reptiworm/calciworm and butterworms. All other worms should be kept at room temp.

 

[Hdrydr31]

Welcome to the forum and I am happy to hear that you are getting the info that your looking for...and I am very happy to hear that you are doing research to have things in place prior to getting your dragon.
1 dragon even at 4-5 months they will eat quite alot still feeding 2 to 3 times a day.. The benefit of dubia are you can feed less and get more than say a cricket. 1 dubia = 5-6 crickets. So you don't have to feed as many for them to be full, they may still stuff themselves lol
I have a dubia colony that has been established for 2 years and I feed 2 dragons and I have to feed off/sell off.
I would house them in the minimum of 10 gal so you can have some egg cartons standing on their sides (horizontal), dry chow, crystals for water and veggies. The warmer they are the faster they will grow, if you keep them in the mid 70's keeping them is easy.

 

[hilabeanz]

You guys are awesome! Looks like I really can't get around having a big ol' tank full of roaches. That's just what I'll have to do then, as I want soon-to-be beardie to have the best.

How many roaches would a ten gallon tank comfortably house, with all the food and egg crate accoutrements?

 

[Hdrydr31]

You guys are awesome! Looks like I really can't get around having a big ol' tank full of roaches. That's just what I'll have to do then, as I want soon-to-be beardie to have the best.

How many roaches would a ten gallon tank comfortably house, with all the food and egg crate accoutrements?

Well I know for a fact that Patsy had about 400 in there because I sold her some of mine lol
Unlike crickets who dislike being ontop of eachother and turn cannibalistic Roaches prefer to be in a mass for whatever reason maybe it's a heat thing not sure it may just be a roach thing... You want to make sure that you get a good variety of sizes (depending on the size of the dragon) nymph (babies) on up to the largest they would be able to eat for a extended period of time... hope that made sense, it will really depend on the size of dragon you get and the head size. a good rule of thumb is don't get any bug that is thicker/wider than the space between their eyes...the good thing about roaches is they are a pretty "meaty" bug and juicy so they chomp pretty easily (sorry if that's gross) mind you I hated roaches but it was for the good for my baby lol I still have to resist the urge to fling the adults off my hands when they won't come off. lol afterall I may be a tomboy at heart but I'm still a chick and roaches are well roaches lol
Soooo get all sizes of roaches nymph up to say nickel in size so some days you can give a variety of sizes to it to make your stash last longer...
alternate with other worms..

 

[PatsyB]

Here's a picture of mine, I need to refresh their greens. There is about 300 in there of various sizes and you only see a few!

 

[hilabeanz]

This is perfect information. The picture is great, it helps me visualize and it doesn't look horrible at all.

Ok, I'm gonna do it!!! Thanks!!

 

[PatsyB]

Like Hdrydr31 said, they like to huddle together. So they are mostly in the egg cups. When I need some I take a cup and just shake them into the cup.

 

[hilabeanz]

In your picture I see the dish of greens and other food, is there bedding or some other kind of substrate in the back near the egg crate? Do you have to do anything for water or a humidity source?

I live in central Texas. The ambient temp where they would be housed will be in the upper 70s.

 

[hilabeanz]

Nvm, I see above - crystals for water. Got it!

 

[Hdrydr31]

No you don't want to have really a substrate per say.. you will want to leave the frass (poop) as they will burrow in it and the smaller ones will feed on it as they don't fully digest the food and in particular the nymphs will eat it more than the bigger ones..what your seeing in patsy's is likely the dry chow.. they will kinda make a mess in their dry chow kinda spreading it out and they love cherrios so they will carry pieces off to munch on.
My tank that I have upstairs is just like Patsy's the egg cartons on end on one side then on the other end I have 3 lids from mayo containers 1 is dry chow 1 is veggies the last one is the water crystals. I keep my water crystals pretty moist and a bit watery for the humidity. If you don't have it kinda humid your roaches won't be able to molt. So if you see ones stuck in their molt you need to increase the humidity some.

 

[PatsyB]

The mess you see is chow. I also have the water crystals and a lid with some more chow. The greens I try to change out a few times a week.

 

[rdoyle225]

Breeding not so bad. Mine is not to far from my bed. I order roach chow from breadeddragon.co they love oranges I put those in probably about 13 hours ago. O have most likely 2k or more. They don't smell. But I do have superworms in there to help with with clean up ect. I have a heating pad with a thermostat that I got on Amazon for like 20 bucks and it's it 293 I think

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[PatsyB]

Just a note, it's good to feed your breeders oranges but you shouldn't feed your feeders oranges. As with any feeders, you want to feed them things that are safe for your bearded dragon or other animal to eat.

 

[rdoyle225]

These are my breeders my feeder are in other been they don't get organges

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[rdoyle225]

actually you can feed them oranges they are on the occasional list the
Mandarin oranges has 1.4:2 phosphate and calcium. High in vitamin C and vitamin A

navel oranges they are high in vitamin C and navel have 2:1 calcium and phosphate

Just saying. I have done a ton of research on their food.

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[rdoyle225]

And these are little bitty navel oranges

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[PatsyB]

I was just pointing out to hilabeanz that oranges aren't recommended for her feeders since they are only an rarely feed for beardies. I know the breeder males love them and gets them in the mood LOL! I love that you did so much research on the different types of oranges. Most people wouldn't think to do that.

You really don't understand the saying you are what you eat until you have reptiles! Like with hornworms, when you breed them they love tomato plants. It's said that the tomato plant helps them lay more eggs. It's great but you have to make sure you get the tiny green eggs off the plant before they hatch because tomato plant leaves are poisonous to reptiles.

 

[rdoyle225]

Sorry about that, yes I understand. I have 2 different ben. Every once in a while I will put a orange into the feeder Ben for then, but not offent

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[PatsyB]

Sorry about that, yes I understand. I have 2 different ben. Every once in a while I will put a orange into the feeder Ben for then, but not offent

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No worries! I actually used to give my feeders oranges when I first started out. Everyone told me to stop which was fine because nobody really eats oranges in my house and they are expensive here just to buy for the bugs!