Help Please: Possible fatty liver disease - Precribed antibiotics

[Neuro]

Hello everyone,

Long time reader, first time poster. Sorry for the long post. Please bear with me.

My 1 year old female (from what the vet can tell) bearded dragon Lizzy recently started behaving oddly. She did not want to be in her tank anymore, always glass surfing and bumping her noes on the glass to get out and stopped eating about 7 days ago.

She is my only dragon and has never been around males. I did some research and realized she could be gravid with infertile eggs. So upon reading here I put together and dig box, but yet she never dug and always just wanted out of the box. After a few days I became worried that she was egg bound so I took her to the vet.

Vet took x-rays and much to our surprise, no eggs! So he said he needed to do some blood work (reptilian panel 136) to figure out what might be going on. When he called with the results he said certain things were elevated in her liver (wish I could remember all he said) and that it is possibly Fatty Liver Disease.

She is about 1 year old and weighs .56kg and is about 23" long. I primarily was feeding Dubia, then thought I'd try superworms awhile back. Bad move. She ended up refusing dubia after she had supers but when I realized the fat content of supers I cut back on them. The most supers she has ever had in a day is 3, so I am unsure if that is enough to cause FLD. She was eating a little salad everyday, mainly mustard greens or collard greens and other beardie approved fruits and vegetables, but never as much as I would have liked.

He gave me a prescription for Lactulose and also an Antibiotic (Enrofloxacin) and I am to dissolve a quarter pill in water and give it to her once every 12 hours. The antibiotic was for in his words "in case there is any infection" ... He also gave me "Critial Care" herbivore version because he said her protein levels were high.

From reading many of your posts on this board I am really concerned about the antibiotic. Many people seem to claim that antibiotics caused the FLD in their dragons and since the issue is with appetite and antibiotics can also have a negative impact on appetite I am not sure I should be giving them to her. I have already given 2 doses but I am unsure if I should continue?

Thanks for reading and any and all help/advice would be MUCH appreciated!

Husbandry:

40 Gallon Breeder
Slate tile substrate
160w MegaRay UVB - 20" above highest basking spot - replaced yesterday even though old one was only 9 months old. I just wanted to be on the safe side with everything that is going on.
Temps: 102 degrees basking spot - 85 degrees cool side

Please let me know if I missed any relevant details.

--Neuro

 

[Mom of blazey]

Husbandry, does that mega ray have uva as well? I've been very lucky with my beardies (10)&(7)
No real diseases just a round of parasites years ago. Sounds like you're a caring/good beardie parent. I can share what is in my enclosures: 1) basking light 100 watts with uva makes basking around 103- 107, and a separate uvb reptisun 10 desert bulb. I have 8 beardies and ever since I got their bulbs right not 1 has needed a vet visit for illness. I'm sure some of the forum's experienced owners will start to weigh in. Keep us posted so others can learn. Good luck my fellow beardie friend

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[Neuro]

Husbandry, does that mega ray have uva as well? I've been very lucky with my beardies (10)&(7)
No real diseases just a round of parasites years ago. Sounds like you're a caring/good beardie parent. I can share what is in my enclosures: 1) basking light 100 watts with uva makes basking around 103- 107, and a separate uvb reptisun 10 desert bulb. I have 8 beardies and ever since I got their bulbs right not 1 has needed a vet visit for illness. I'm sure some of the forum's experienced owners will start to weigh in. Keep us posted so others can learn. Good luck my fellow beardie friend

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Hello Mom of Blazey,

Thanks for your response, yes the Megaray is UVA/UVB/IR Mercury Vapor Bulb. I really hope someone more knowledgeable than me can weigh in on the antibiotics. I just feel like my vet is trying to kill 1 bird with 2 stones, and I am not sure if that is the best approach. Especially since she already is having appetite issues.

Been trying really hard to do everything right and I have spared no expense. I just couldn't handle starving her to get her back on her Dubias and kept giving in with a couple superworms a day. I did not think such a small amount would cause FLD. Espically since she is barely a year old. :/

--Neuro

 

[Neuro]

Anyone else have any advice they might be able to give me here?

Thanks,
--Neuro

 

[Mom of blazey]

Have you checked out the sub forums here for info?

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[Neuro]

Yeah, I could not really find anything like my issue. At least not that I saw.

Anyone?

--Neuro

 

[Hdrydr31]

What I would recommend is getting some powdered probiotics to give as meds do have a harsh effect on the natural gut flora so you need to replace that... beautifuldragons.co is where most of us get our supplements from them. Getting your dragon to eat more greens along with dubia would be a good course.. You said they gave you critical care and that's great so I would make up slurries with the critical care and blend up some greens like the collards, mustard, dandelion, turnip greens ( I use a magic bullet those work really well making it smooth to go thru plastic syringe) along with any other supplements you give (probiotics can go in there too) .. This way you know your gal is getting more greens... I've even put dubia in there too lol
flushing her out with increased fluids will help her body flush out the toxins, the probiotic may help her appetite. You can also get bee pollen that is all around awesome for them and it's sweet and has been known to help picky eaters to eat.. Oh and increase her exercise to loose any weight that she may be holding on...

Hope that helps keep us posted

 

[Neuro]

What I would recommend is getting some powdered probiotics to give as meds do have a harsh effect on the natural gut flora so you need to replace that... beautifuldragons.co is where most of us get our supplements from them. Getting your dragon to eat more greens along with dubia would be a good course.. You said they gave you critical care and that's great so I would make up slurries with the critical care and blend up some greens like the collards, mustard, dandelion, turnip greens ( I use a magic bullet those work really well making it smooth to go thru plastic syringe) along with any other supplements you give (probiotics can go in there too) .. This way you know your gal is getting more greens... I've even put dubia in there too lol
flushing her out with increased fluids will help her body flush out the toxins, the probiotic may help her appetite. You can also get bee pollen that is all around awesome for them and it's sweet and has been known to help picky eaters to eat.. Oh and increase her exercise to loose any weight that she may be holding on...

Hope that helps keep us posted

Hello Hdrydr31,

Thanks for the response and for all of the information. I ordered some probiotics called "Bene-Bac Bird and Reptile Probiotic" that was recommended on Amazon. It won't be here until Tuesday though. Are you aware of anything else that I might be able to find locally?

I went ahead and gave her another dose of the antibiotic just to be on the safe side. I really hope it is not making the FLD and her situation worse. I was able to get close to 10ml of Critical Care in her today as well. But I used a lot of water to make sure she got hydrated so I was not able to get the whole half tablespoon of Critial Care down. Tomorrow I will use less water to try and get more nutrients down.

She has definitively been getting a lot of exercise, but she always has. I really hope I am doing the right things and that she makes it through this.

--Neuro

 

[PatsyB]

Benebac is real good. I am all about natural supplements for these guys, I would also get some milk thistle. I think beardeddragon.co might sell it or bug-de-lite. It helps with liver issues.

 

[Neuro]

Is Milk Thistle something I can buy locally so I don't have to wait for shipping, or do I need to order it online because it is a specialized version for dragons etc?

Thanks again for taking the time to help me.

--Neuro

 

[PatsyB]

You may be able to buy it at the vitamin shoppe or Whole Foods or something like that. I also just read that alfalfa is good for the liver too. Just make sure they come in powder or easy to make into a powder so it's easier to mix with their food. I also forgot my favorite one, Serrapeptase. It's an enzyme that silk worms produce that boosts the effectiveness of the medicines you give. I love that stuff I use it on Dexter a lot. The medicine they gave, the Lactulose, is good but they say it could cause funny stools. Just make sure your dragon stays hydrated.

 

[Neuro]

Hello PatsyB,

Thanks for all of the valuable information. I am going to talk to my vet about everything tomorrow and see what he has to say. For now I am keeping her hydrated as best I can with all of the Critical Care I am administering. I have it pretty watered down. Is there any kind of a ballpark for how much water she should be getting? I never know if I am doing well enough.

I have been giving her nightly baths hoping that helps, but I have read conflicting information on whether there is any benefit if the dragon does not take a drink, which I almost never see her do. :/

-- Neuro

 

[Hdrydr31]

As far as how much when I give my 2 a supplement slurry I try to get at least 3ml into them sometimes they will take 6ml sometimes not..I try to do a slurry to give them a boost at least once a week.. Both of mine eat Dubia so they get a good amount there. Every now and then I will see if they want some water thru the syringe...I give mine powdered alfalfa, Dandelion powder is also good to clean and protect the liver...
Then there is the Does your dragon get hydration while in the bath.. They only get hydrated if they actually drink the water they don't absorb any thru their vent.. It's mainly to help loosen any shed, it often stimulates them to poop, easy exercise for them, great opportunity to give them a gentle scrub down with a soft toothbrush.. They will occasionally lick the water or the side of the sink/tub whatever but I don't know that it equates to much.

 

[Mom of blazey]

Their natural habitat is in the desert, ardent air, very low humidity. In the wild they will drink the dew drops from the desert plants so, they really don't require a whole lotta water, mine will usually drink about once a wk while they're bathing, I bathe them 2X a wk. You can also take an "eye dropper" filled with water and let it drip onto their nose, they'll bend their heads down and start licking, I let mine drink until they stop.

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[Neuro]

Thank for the input on hyrdration guys! These sound like "normal" condition recommendations are there any differences if she is only getting Critical Care and not eating salad or bugs at the moment and also while being on Lactulose and Baytril?

I just want to be sure I am doing the best I can for her... Thanks!

--Neuro

 

[Hdrydr31]

Thank for the input on hyrdration guys! These sound like "normal" condition recommendations are there any differences if she is only getting Critical Care and not eating salad or bugs at the moment and also while being on Lactulose and Baytril?

I just want to be sure I am doing the best I can for her... Thanks!

--Neuro

She would benefit from supplement rich slurry every couple days if she will take it to keep her body strong while going thru meds as they typically decrease their appetite. Since she's not eating her salad or bugs keeping good food in her. I would blend up her greens and put supplements into a slurry and give via plastic syringe.

 

[Neuro]

Thanks Hdrydr31, my Vet made me feel like the Critical Care Herbivore Slurry had everything in it she needed right now. Is that not the case and I should be adding more veggies? Sorry I just want to make sure I am understanding.

I'm having a hard enough time getting the required daily dose of Critical Care down her and that's with drip feeding her every hour or two throughout he day.

--Neuromancer

 

[Hdrydr31]

Thanks Hdrydr31, my Vet made me feel like the Critical Care Herbivore Slurry had everything in it she needed right now. Is that not the case and I should be adding more veggies? Sorry I just want to make sure I am understanding.

I'm having a hard enough time getting the required daily dose of Critical Care down her and that's with drip feeding her every hour or two throughout he day.

--Neuromancer

I guess if it were my dragon I would be giving anything that I could get in them, good greens and some additional supp's is not going to hurt..
@Patsy can we add the link from BDA on syringe feeding??

 

[Hdrydr31]

There is a video of a vet putting their fingers over the dragon's eyes and it relaxes them enough for the jaw to be loose so they can put the syringe in to give this dragon meds.. I wanted to share this video with you (it was posted in a fb group patsy and I are in) so I'm waiting for her to see my pm to her to see about her posting it here for you. As it would be more effective than dripping it on the nose.

 

[PatsyB]

I agree with Hdrydr31, I would still try to get some fresh greens in her along with the critical care. With the slurry you can add the natural stuff, alfalfa, dandelion, milkthistle, serrapeptase. Where the critical care will have your calcium, D3, etc. Also, a good greens slurry will help keep up hydration.

Earlier I meant to say the medicine causes loose stool. Not sure how my phone decided on funny stool, LOL!