Don't freak out just yet. Get him in for a visit and go from there. There are some natural things you can give to help. Black cherry concentrate is supposed to be good to break up gout crystals. Do a vet checkup first though.
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Are his ankles ok?
- Thread starter Dragnmum
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any updates?
Vet appointment in 2 hours. Today's the worst day. I feel horrible. Of course I've been doing my own research and it looks like there is such a thing as too much protein, specifically Dubias. What the hell?! I've always read and been told to feed them as much as they want in 10-15 minute span and that Dubias are the best. I just feel I'm failing Turbo. Hoping I get slight encouragement from vet. We shall see. I will update when I get home.
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I dont think the dubia are the issue going on here. Dont beat yourself up they are tough critters..
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So vet went ok. He's pretty certain it's MBD. He says it's possible because of where I bought him from, he could have already had it but the good care he's gotten has masked symptoms. We are going to try calcium glubionate and vitamin D injections for a month and see how he responds. He was also kind enough to give me some of his stash of oxbow carnivore care food. Mix it with water and syringe feed it. He's still eating his Dubias, but he says this is good stuff. Should know in a weeks time if we have improvement. I also just bought a new UVB light. Mine is one that sits on top of the screen. I'm going to go work on mounting this one I just got inside his viv. And additional tips welcomed!
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HerpPrincess
Bearded Dragon Egg
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I wouldn't syringe feed him if he is eating bugs. They can get dependent on it and it can be risky so is best left for worst case scenario. Well dusted dubia and any other bugs you can get him to him will serve him much better than syringe feeds. MBD can be reversed to a certain extent and a high output UVB tube will definitely help.
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We are using a reptisun 10.0, it was just one that sits on the screen. So same light, I'll just have it mounted inside. I have to syringe feed the calcium. It's a high dose calcium in liquid form.
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HerpPrincess
Bearded Dragon Egg
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Syringing medication is fine. It should be a tiny measured amount judging by his size.
Mixing it with the fruit of a juice, like a strawberry can encourage them to lick it off your finger if they struggle with the syringe part.
Did the vet perform an X-ray to check bone density? Or do a blood test?
If you get a definitive diagnosis of MBD, some dragons do well with a mercury vapour basking bulb and a UVB tube. If you go down that route, you must use calcium that does not contain D3.
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We did not do X-ray or blood test. He said for mbd or gout he would do the same medication regiment to see if it helps. He said tests would give us a range of where his disease is in the process, but because we decided to start these meds regardless, we'll see how he reacts.
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Glad your giving some treatments to see how he responds!! If caught early enough it can be slowed and well managed so that's awesome! Sounds like he's got a great home with you! Other than his ankles he looks great!
If he responds well to treatment my suggestion would be to have a baseline xray done this way you will know what areas are being affected and have a start film.. and as he grows and matures future films will show how the MBD is being managed. It certainly is better known and easier to control/manage.
Slurries are a great way to get meds in, supplements in, and in general great way to hydrate! Just make sure you go slowly so you don't cause aspiration..
If he responds well to treatment my suggestion would be to have a baseline xray done this way you will know what areas are being affected and have a start film.. and as he grows and matures future films will show how the MBD is being managed. It certainly is better known and easier to control/manage.
Slurries are a great way to get meds in, supplements in, and in general great way to hydrate! Just make sure you go slowly so you don't cause aspiration..
We're gonna give this a try. Doctor says in his experience if it's caught early enough, he's got a 50/50 chance of improving. I've just to try to find peace that I'm doing what's in my control to keep him comfy and hopefully healthy again. Thanks for your support.
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rdoyle225
Juvenile Dragon
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Look like gout
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Hmmmm. I agree with the other comment, if he is eating his dubia don't syringe feed him. Dubia are great sources of nutrition and if you are dusting them, he should be getting what he needs there. One tip on the calcium....you can inject it into a bug you can even dot it on the belly of a dubia (it should stick if you feed the dubia to him upside down) and you can give it to him that way if you have trouble with the syringe. Dexter refuses to open her mouth for anything so I inject her calcium into her hornworms.
I also agree with getting an X-ray done. The bones will tell you how bad the MBD is and how long you need to give the calcium. Dexter was diagnosed with the very start of MBD almost a year ago. She was on calcium for 2 weeks and then I kept it up and gave it to her once a month. She's a very poor eater and doesn't eat her salad and very picky about bugs. So I give her calcium and a B Complex vitamin once a month to help her out. We took an X-ray just recently and it shows that her bones are perfect no signs of MBD and a blood test shows that her calcium levels are actually a little high. So it's good to have these things to compare especially when you are dealing with an illness. You don't want to give too much of a good thing.
I also agree with getting an X-ray done. The bones will tell you how bad the MBD is and how long you need to give the calcium. Dexter was diagnosed with the very start of MBD almost a year ago. She was on calcium for 2 weeks and then I kept it up and gave it to her once a month. She's a very poor eater and doesn't eat her salad and very picky about bugs. So I give her calcium and a B Complex vitamin once a month to help her out. We took an X-ray just recently and it shows that her bones are perfect no signs of MBD and a blood test shows that her calcium levels are actually a little high. So it's good to have these things to compare especially when you are dealing with an illness. You don't want to give too much of a good thing.
Thanks Patsy. Turbo has never eaten from my hand, but I'll give it a try. Even when I first got him I'd put food on my finger and he wouldn't take it. I put it in his bowl and he eats no problem. We will definitely do an X-ray in a few weeks if the treatment looks like it's working. And vet did say that he may be on a liquid calcium for the rest of his life if it just seems that he needs more to function. I will back off the food supplement as long as he's eating his Dubias.
So, I mounted his tube uvb and now my concern is it's too close to Turbo. I have a 20 gallon right now. And from top to bottom is about 10". I guess that's why my tank came with a top screen light. Right now there's no climbing things in there, just a couple hides. So he's far enough away from it. Does this mean I need to upgrade the tank for the mounted light to be appropriate? Also, it's super bright. You guys leave yours uncovered, right?
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HerpPrincess
Bearded Dragon Egg
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It's fine uncovered. You will need to upgrade soon anyway. They grow quickly.
You need 6 inches between him and the tube.
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The screen blocks out something like 35% of the UVB so I think you are good. Like HerpPrincess said, they need to be 6 inches from the tube.
The minimum for an adult dragon is a 36x18x18 tank. You don't really go by gallons in the dragon world. You want a tank that is at least as wide as their adult body can get and 2x as long. The average length of an adult is 18". You are going to need to upgrade your tank soon because they grow fast when they are little. Upgrading now to an adult size tank is just fine as long as you offer places for him to hide away when he feels overwhelmed.
Also, your UVB needs to cover at least 2/3'rds of the tank. Since bulbs and fixtures can be expensive, it's just best to get your biggest tank now and the proper light for them so you don't have to keep buying a new light.
The minimum for an adult dragon is a 36x18x18 tank. You don't really go by gallons in the dragon world. You want a tank that is at least as wide as their adult body can get and 2x as long. The average length of an adult is 18". You are going to need to upgrade your tank soon because they grow fast when they are little. Upgrading now to an adult size tank is just fine as long as you offer places for him to hide away when he feels overwhelmed.
Also, your UVB needs to cover at least 2/3'rds of the tank. Since bulbs and fixtures can be expensive, it's just best to get your biggest tank now and the proper light for them so you don't have to keep buying a new light.
Hey y'all. So, update:
Turbo is on daily liquid calcium above his normal powder. He is also getting weekly vitamin D injections once a week for a month. His body looks better and he's moving around, but he doesn't have an appetite. I'm taking very seriously the advice about not syringe feeding but I must say I have done it a few times if he hasn't eaten by the evening. I'm trying to be patient, and I'm hopeful Turbo is going to continue improving. If you experts have any additional advise, especially about the lack of appetite, I'm all ears.
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Turbo is on daily liquid calcium above his normal powder. He is also getting weekly vitamin D injections once a week for a month. His body looks better and he's moving around, but he doesn't have an appetite. I'm taking very seriously the advice about not syringe feeding but I must say I have done it a few times if he hasn't eaten by the evening. I'm trying to be patient, and I'm hopeful Turbo is going to continue improving. If you experts have any additional advise, especially about the lack of appetite, I'm all ears.
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BeardedHippy
Bearded Dragon Veteran
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Great, sounds like he is on the mend. When mine dont seem interested in their bugs, I must admit I start to panic a bit too, but theres no need to yet. Sometimes their instinct to hunt can overcome their lack of appetite. I feed their dubias in a glass bowl, but sometimes I will put one on the floor of the viv and let it make a run for it, redirecting it with my finger. Most of the time the sight of one running past them will cause them to react by instinct and pounce. Its a very time consuming way to feed though lol. His lack of appetite will improve though im sure, hunger wins out over any other overriding stuff every time, especially now hes healing
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Have you given any probiotics? maybe his belly is not feeling well? So maybe see if restoring the natural gut flora will help improve his appetite.. Also you can try bee pollen powder some really like it and it is a appetite stimulant and really good for them..
I understand the worry factor but they won't starve themselves so try different bugs, different colored dishes.. my male went on a strike and so when I had him out running around the room I tosses a dubia in front of him and it skittered off and Simon took off after it and devoured it!! ever since he prefers to catch his food.
I am a worry wort and when mine don't eat for around a week I will give a nutrient packed slurry of their greens and supp's that way I know they have something in them that's good.
